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Around SBN: Chan Sung Jung Wins Thriller Over Dustin Poirier

Have we given up on Tex?

Yes, a much-dicussed topic, but we haven't had one for what seems like a week, an all-time high. As we voted on in Britsoxfans thread made seemingly immediately after the season ended, Mark Teixeira is our number one free agent to go after. We need to make a move, for multiple reasons:

  1. We can strengthen our line-up.
  2. Our corner defense will improve even more.
  3. The MFY and LAAA don't get him, even though they need him more than us.

He is younger than Youk, and a slightly better defender (yes, THAT good) and has a nice switch-hitting bat. Why not sign him? Lowell has been injured often, and we need to let the other guys learn to take the lead. Win-win situation; we sign him, great. He runs off to the MFY or LAAA, but the price is boosted.

Our line-up with Tex:

  1.  Ellsbury
  2. Pedroia
  3. Papi
  4. Tex
  5. Youk
  6. Bay
  7. Drew
  8. Lowrie
  9. Mystery Catcher

And also... whatever happened to Burnett and Lowe? Any ideas on signing either of them?

Final thoughts?

 

Poll
Will we sign Tex or Burnett/Lowe in the off-season?
Tex. We need another good bat, then world domination.
29 votes
Burnett/Lowe. Either will fill our needs for that fickle 5th starter spot.
5 votes
Both. Needy, needy rich us.
7 votes
Neither. We need to conserve.
7 votes

48 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 26 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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Youk is younger, IIRC.

I think we’re just waiting for some news since the last bit was that Tex will be somewhere by Christmas.

Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/

by bdalebs on Dec 5, 2008 6:04 PM EST reply actions  

Oh well.

Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/

by bdalebs on Dec 5, 2008 6:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Youk is actually older.

"Are you a real doctor, or a doctor like Dr. Pepper is a doctor?"

by Allen Chace on Dec 6, 2008 4:05 AM EST up reply actions  

Tex strengthens the line-up, but not the defense

Tex may be a slight upgrade defensively over Youk at 1B. However, Lowell is better than Youk at 3B.

Lowell will be hard to move, and Tex will significantly add to the Sox’ payroll.

I still think Tex will re-sign with the Angels. I don’t see how Orange County can let him walk. They’ll overpay to keep him. I’d be shocked if Theo gets into a bidding war over Tex because the Sox don’t really need him.

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Dec 5, 2008 6:33 PM EST reply actions  

What about Lowe and Burnett? Well…

Olney said that Sabathia is meeting with the Red Sox next week … hmmmm.

by Randy Booth on Dec 5, 2008 7:16 PM EST reply actions  

NO!!!!!!!!!!!

Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/

by bdalebs on Dec 5, 2008 7:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Seconded.

And CC will be a fixture in the NL, unless he is offered a Zito+ contract.

Well, I will appreciate for you to keep my zingers out of your mouth!

by BoSox415 on Dec 5, 2008 8:40 PM EST up reply actions  

You mean like the 6 years, $140 million

that the Yankees offered him?

"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.

by 0157H7 on Dec 5, 2008 8:49 PM EST up reply actions  

+1

And love the dog…

Rock me, sexy Jesus...

by nuthinboutnuthin on Dec 6, 2008 1:33 AM EST up reply actions  

Rec'd

Manny ain't the only bad man.

by tommy.otm on Dec 6, 2008 3:03 AM EST up reply actions  

I probably shouldn't be saying this but...
It also increases the amount of time the HH’ers spend praising the various virtues of Mike Soscia’s aggressive-baserunning/small-ball/anemic-offense ways, and then puking up bitter jealousy and venom when they inevitably wilt in the postseason. Cheap fun at any price.

…solid gold.

"Are you a real doctor, or a doctor like Dr. Pepper is a doctor?"

by Allen Chace on Dec 6, 2008 4:09 AM EST up reply actions  

Rec'd

For so very many reasons. Well done!

"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.

by SoxDevil on Dec 11, 2008 12:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Just don't say this around here

anymore concerning Jason Varitek or Tim Wakefield because they never ages, don’t you know!

Is it perfect? No, but I think that’s what I love about it. It’s leveraging the team’s extraordinary monetary resources to insure a reliably high level of play going forward, rather than to overpaying for past performance by aging players.

VERY well said. Good to see another realist among the ranks!

by NG on Dec 6, 2008 12:06 PM EST reply actions  

Well, yes and no...

The thing about Wakefield is that he’s dirt cheap for a starting pitcher, and will continue to be dirt cheap in perpetuity. We need someone to pitch on Day 5, and he can do so about 28-30 times a season and give the team a 50% chance to win, or so. He’s also less likely to tail off with age, because he certainly doesn’t rely on his Howitzer of an arm. This year may have been the start of his drop-off, but maybe not, after all, his ERA, IP and WHIP are consistent with ’07 and ’05 when he won 16 and 17 games. The rocky W-L is likely explained by the Tampa Bay D-Bags Rays kicking (our) ass this year, as they were reliable Wakefield patsies in years past.

In economic terms, Wakefield’s an easily movable part – a low-cost starter who effectively has a lifetime contractual commitment to us, while we have no such commitment to him beyond the current season. That said, he’s only more useful than average as a cog in a larger plan to develop young pitching. I think we have enough young talent on the farm to justify Timmy’s continued presence, but it also needs to be mentioned that this role makes infinitely more sense if he’s SP5 and not SP4 – whichis his role as things currently stand. So really, I think feelings about the presence of Wakefield and about the acquisition of a starter depend largely on whether you think Buch, Bowden or Masterson is a viable SP4 MLB starter this year.

As an aside, the major cost of Wake, in terms of flexibility, is that he requires a caddy – meaning our back-up catcher position is determined 95% by whether they can catch the knuckler and 5% by stuff like OPS, their ability to throw out baserunners, and breathing. Speaking of which …

As to Varitek, the comment from the Joe-Morgan-verse (and my internal Joe-Morgan-verse agrees) would of course be to mention his veteranly goodness and his unparalleled ability to be present when a no-hitter is thrown, and to suggest that he – much like the “other” Captain Intangibles – is a “true leader.” I think that there’s something to all of this, but it doesn’t blind me to the stats line, which is underwhelming to say the least. My question is what else is available? I-Rod? Zaun? Chad Moeller? Not much at all.

While I hope he’ll rebound, Tek right now is Crash Davis without the power: a heady pitcher-manager whose limbs put together aren’t worth seven cents a pound. His value is in (1) being a game-caller (and though not measurable, I think this is a skill, and he’s an All-Star), (2) a clubhouse guy, and (3) a first-and-sandwich compensation-getter if signed elsewhere.* The second category always has some value, but not enough to pay considerable cash or hemorrhage considerable wasted ABs for. The first category has considerable value given that we have a young pitching staff to develop and a young catcher (either from within or without).** The third category has value in two senses – the first is that it depresses ’Tek’s value as a free-agent, given that teams are required to give up future talent, and the second obviously is that we get rewarded if ’Tek does sign elsewhere, and we play the season with offensively comparable and Wakefield catcher-able Kevin Cash.

Would I do a ‘Tek for Mauer/Soto/Martin straight up? Sure. But given the constraints of reality as we know it, I think we’ve managed our catcher situation fairly well…

——————
 * – This all assumes that ‘Tek does not accept arbitration. If he does, we’ll see what the arbitrator thinks.

 ** – I hear Texas lowered their offer to Buchholz, Masterson, Lester, Pedroia and Superman for Saltalamacchia.

Rock me, sexy Jesus...

by nuthinboutnuthin on Dec 6, 2008 3:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Thanks for this effort (really), BUT

(there is always a but, don’t you know.) Look at the two quotes below, one from each of your posts on this subject.

No, but I think that’s what I love about it. It’s leveraging the team’s extraordinary monetary resources to insure a reliably high level of play going forward,

The thing about Wakefield is that he’s dirt cheap for a starting pitcher,

Now does that show a consistent thought pattern? You want to win, and you say the Sox have the bucks to buy good talent going forward. Then you fall back on the previously dismissed money argument and say that keeping a guy (Wakefield) that may win 50% of the time is okay. Are you having an internal argument with yourself? I like the first approach of buying good talent going forward much better!

by NG on Dec 6, 2008 5:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Dude...

Maybe I’m misreading your tone (and if so, I apologize), but throttle back…

Only a very great fool (probably named "Steinbrenner") would dismiss the “money argument.” Thoughtful baseball’s is all about the money argument, because without the money argument it just degenerates into a name-your-All-Star-roster discussion. My first post argued that Teixeira was worth an excessive (and wasteful to the tune of $ 24MM) expenditure because he is (a) a rare talent; (b) fits with the way our club has been built offensively, allowing for a continuity of a winning formula; and © has added relative value by hurting two of our three major competitors going forward.

Wakefield is also a valuable commodity in that he is a) an above-average MLB starter; b) averages 189ish innings per year; and c) is perpetually inexpensive – which has a virtue as far as dollars are concerned, and also provides flexibility in bringing up / trying out our farm talent (which is the true key to insuring “a reliably high level of play going forward”). The major Wake drawback is that he diminishes roster flexibility somewhat – unless you can find a league-backup average catcher who can handle the knuckler. That said, his value (as noted above) is as SP5 and not an SP4 – so perhaps the Sox should sign someone to be their fourth starter. But, I’d he hard-pressed to find a better value for the fifth spot in the rotation than Wakefield + whatever prospect manages to wrest the job from him, or tries to.

There’s no inconsistency here – merely an argument about how to properly value performance. I think Teixeira is worth his $ 175MM / 8 or whatever, and I think that Wakefield is worth his $ 4MM next year.

Rock me, sexy Jesus...

by nuthinboutnuthin on Dec 11, 2008 3:00 PM EST up reply actions  

We haven't given up on Tex yet at all.

Right now it is the calm before the storm (Winter Meetings). Things will in a short amount of time get crazy.

by drabidea on Dec 8, 2008 10:34 AM EST reply actions  

MFY:

Mother F***ing Yankees?

LAAA?

by schmosterballs92 on Dec 8, 2008 12:12 PM EST reply actions  

You:

TROLL?

We use both as loving jokes about the teams.

Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/

by bdalebs on Dec 8, 2008 5:36 PM EST up reply actions  

There's the T-word again.

Not everyone who visits from another blog is a troll. Let me people make jackasses of themselves before you jump down their throats.

Manny ain't the only bad man.

by tommy.otm on Dec 8, 2008 6:58 PM EST up reply actions  

No, he's been doing this for a while.

http://www.overthemonster.com/2008/11/14/661728/the-yankees-have-evolved-t#10024741

Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/

by bdalebs on Dec 8, 2008 7:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh.

Okay then.

Manny ain't the only bad man.

by tommy.otm on Dec 8, 2008 7:42 PM EST up reply actions  

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