Red Sox 'not a factor' for Mark Teixeira
by Randy Booth on Dec 18, 2008 11:00 PM EST
in News
140 comments
UPDATE, 11:09 p.m.: According to this Associated Press story, Henry e-mailed the AP and said contract talks are "no closer." So does this mean they are out? Not necessarily by what the AP reported.
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According to Adam Kilgore from the Globe, John Henry, in an e-mail statement, said the Sox "are not going to be a factor" for Mark Teixeira.
Red Sox owner just e-mailed several media members with a stunning twist in the team's pursuit of Mark Teixeira. "We met with Mr. Teixeira and were very much impressed with him. After hearing about his other offers, however, it seems clear that we are not going to be a factor."
I have no idea how this could possibly happen. Why would the Red Sox front office take the time and effort to fly out to Texas to just, minutes after the meeting, give up? It doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Maybe they realized Scott Boras was/is trying to push teams around. Maybe the Sox are trying to make a statement. Hopefully we'll find out more soon.
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Teix is like A-Rod--all about the money
I bet he ends up in Washington. I heard a rumor they offered $200 million.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Dec 18, 2008 11:10 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I don’t understand ANYTHING anymore…
by Randy Booth on Dec 18, 2008 11:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m going to just play a game of Madden and step away from the computer for a while. Maybe I’ll check it after… Ahhh, frickin’ Teix, just sign SOMEWHERE!
by Red Peltic on Dec 18, 2008 11:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wish my Xbox was working so I could play some college football … dammit. Need a stress reliever….
by Randy Booth on Dec 18, 2008 11:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What did people expect?
The Red Sox are risk averse when it comes to huge salaries (i.e. >$15 million per year). As cool as Tex is, signing him to a huge contract doesn’t square with their M.O. The only top free agents we get are the ones who are somehow undervalued and can come at a discount (ex. J.D. Drew), or the ones on our own team whom we extend (Tek four years ago, Beckett, Lowell). Theo and company tried to give away Manny, a first-ballot hall of famer, just for salary relief.
If Tex isn’t signed, that’s more money to put towards an extension for Youk, and possible deals for Lester, Papelbon, and others in the future.
"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.
by 0157H7 on Dec 18, 2008 11:16 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
What do we expect? After two weeks of hearing the Sox are in the lead, we expect them to sign Mark Teixeria.
It’s not like the Red Sox were never in this thing. They were in it and they were IN FRONT of it. This comes out of the blue. And it’s not like the Sox would offer a contract just to offer one, and then yank it back. None of this makes sense.
by Randy Booth on Dec 18, 2008 11:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with Randy...
and I won’t believe the Sox are truly out of it before the big Maryland native signs on the dotted line.
By the way, check out the 50 million the Sox spent just to TALK to Dice-BB. As thrifty as the Sox’ FO likes to pretend they are… they still spend money more almost than any other team (sans that team in New York).
Maybe this is Henry calling Scott Boras’ bluff at a 10 year deal. Maybe not.
by Red Peltic on Dec 18, 2008 11:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you guys, hell...All of us
know better than to believe anything before “it happens”. Conjecture is just that…Conjecture. Buster Olney, Peter Gammons and Co. were salivating that this signing would take place. One, so they could “appear” to be the cutting edge of sports journalism and two, so they could ponder the possibility of years and years of Red Sox domination of the AL East.
Bristol, Connecticut would have only been too happy to have more ammunition to blather on about Sox / Yanks rivalries with Teixeira in the mix.
Mr. Henry stated clearly that the contract was just too long. Does anyone know anymore information other than length and cost of the contract? No. Until the smoke clears, there won’t be any indication of why the talks “broke down” / why the deal didn’t get done.
" We got "The Rod"...What you got? "
by LOUtheMETandNATSfan on Dec 18, 2008 11:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I told you guys yesterday
never to ASSUME anything. You get hooked into all this rumor crap all the time and wind up torturing yourself.
by ccthemovieman on Dec 19, 2008 8:00 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Randy you don't really know who was "in front"
We’ve heard so many different (sometimes conflicting) reports about what the Sox offered. In any Scott Boras negotiation you are going to hear things leaked about one team being way in front or an offer of more year/money than the other teams.
My guess: the three or four team offers were really close. The Sox are either posturing or they reached their limit in terms of money or years. It’s probably the latter. Teixeira is a very good player. But the Sox don’t have unlimited money for payroll like the MFY. I’m OK as long as Teix and Manny don’t end up with the MFY, who really need a bat. The Sox are a very good team, even without Teix.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Dec 19, 2008 7:23 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
+1 (MFY) :-)
" We got "The Rod"...What you got? "
by LOUtheMETandNATSfan on Dec 19, 2008 11:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This makes no sense at all.
Are we to believe that they are going to let the best of the available free agents slip through their fingers? With the Skankees loading up on pitching this year are Henry & Co going to get further behind by NOT signing this guy? What does that leave us with? Catcher is still a priority and time is running out. ST is just about 45 days away.
I believe the comments of Mr. Henry via the email to the AP, but until Teixeira signs on the dotted line with another team I will put all my Christmas wishes together that the boys in Beantown pull one out of their collective stalkings and put this big man under the tree!
by Bosox0407 on Dec 19, 2008 8:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Calm down
The Sox aren’t going to overpay. While Teixeira would be a nice addition, they don’t need him. The MFY have lost Mike Mussina (200 innings, 20-9, ERA+ 132) and Pettitte (200+ IP) and added Sabathia and Burnett. So, their rotation is slightly improved (at great cost). But pitching wasn’t the MFY problem last year, offense was. They only scored 789 runs last year and lost two of their most productive hitters—Abreu and Giambi.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Dec 19, 2008 9:09 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This is stunning
I was really getting used to having him the middle of our lineup.
by Gnick on Dec 18, 2008 11:16 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
The nice thing is this: we still have a very good team.
by Randy Booth on Dec 18, 2008 11:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Dec 19, 2008 7:24 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
2008
Does nobody remember the end of last season? It was painfully obvious that we needed another big bat to reach the next level. Signing Teixeira would have made us perhaps the frontrunners in the AL. Now we’re the exact same team we were last year.
by Gnick on Dec 18, 2008 11:19 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
The offseason isn’t done yet. The lineup will probably be the same, but we should improve overall if we can grab a few more arms and some solid bench players.
by Randy Booth on Dec 18, 2008 11:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Who?
Who do you see us getting? Lowe perhaps, but if Teixeira’s cost was too high Lowe’s almost certainly will. Does Rocco Baldelli really excite you that much?
by Gnick on Dec 18, 2008 11:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’d like to see Smoltz come in. I’d also like to see the Sox take a chance on Ben Sheets. I’d also like another bullpen arm (and yes, those are still out there). If we can sign Varitek to a 1 or 2 year deal, trade for a young catcher to be the backup, and sign a 4th OF (Rocco?) then we should be OK.
by Randy Booth on Dec 18, 2008 11:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Keyword: OK
Won’t be superb, just OK.
by Charged on Dec 18, 2008 11:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think OK is an underestimate, but I didn’t want to say “great.”
by Randy Booth on Dec 18, 2008 11:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
But none of those additions equal the addition of Mark Teixeira. Don’t get me wrong, I love Smoltzy and have intrigue towards Sheets, but they’re no Teixeira. And they don’t help the Red Sox with their biggest need: offense.
by Red Peltic on Dec 18, 2008 11:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Is that really their biggest need though? I don’t think so. I feel like signing Teixeira is like jamming 30 lbs of shit in a 5 lb bag. Teix isn’t shit, but he obviously doesn’t have a PLACE in the way the Sox’s lineup is situated. If Teix was a catcher, this would be a different situation all together…
by Randy Booth on Dec 18, 2008 11:31 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I totally agree
Despite injuries, the Sox were 2nd in runs, 2nd in team AVG, 1st in team OBP, and 3rd in team SLG last year. They figure to be just as good or better if healthy in 2009. The Sox need a catcher and bench.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Dec 19, 2008 7:30 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd
I just commented on that later down without reading yours. We have one of, if not the best offense in the Majors. Everyone of our positional players, besides catcher, hits above to well above average.
by drabidea on Dec 19, 2008 9:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
.. and
If Ellsbury and Lowrie improve.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Dec 19, 2008 9:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Some hypotheticals
I too would like to see Smoltz, but do you really think he’ll leave Atlanta? Especially considering the Braves have only acquired one new pitcher this offseason. I would also love to see a Sheets signing, but there have been no indications that Theo is even considering that. Besides that, resigning Varitek, trading for a backup catcher, getting a 4th OF, and getting one of the remaining RPs available (not named Fuentes, who the Sox obviously will not want), doesn’t really improve the team much since last year.
by Gnick on Dec 18, 2008 11:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think if Smoltz wanted to go back to Atlanta, he’d already be there.
As far as Sheets goes, if they’re out on Teix this could change their plans.
Personally, I’d like to get Trevor Hoffman, but don’t lambaste me on that…
by Randy Booth on Dec 18, 2008 11:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Even if we do get Smoltz or Sheets
We saw last year what can happen when a good team is riddled with injuries, do we really want to take a flier on two more injury prone guys.
by Gnick on Dec 18, 2008 11:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But they’re cheap … VERY cheap compared to what we are/were offering to Teix.
by Randy Booth on Dec 18, 2008 11:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
a.) You might be right.
b.) I’d take a flyer… but that would probably have to be a 2-3 year flyer.
c.) You’re kidding, right? So they could go back to back seasons with an over 40 reliever with an ERA over 5? (See Timlin, Mike).
by Red Peltic on Dec 18, 2008 11:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I like these moves Randy
Smoltz, Sheets, Tek, Rocco.
Maybe try and trade for a young arm like Peavy or a catcher like Salty.
Red Sox would be pretty tight.
by SoxAcumen on Dec 19, 2008 11:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I figure, why not take a flyer on Sheets? Sign Smoltz, grab Sheets, bring ’Tek back, get a young catcher to share duties w/ Tek and fill out the bench.
If we have Smoltz and Sheets going for the 5th spot PLUS guys like Buchholz, Bowden, etc. … we are in GOOD shape.
by Randy Booth on Dec 19, 2008 11:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd pass on Sheets
His injury history, especially back problems, is worrisome. I’m OK with Smoltz for a 1-year incentive contract. But I think if Smoltz can pitch, he’ll stay in Atlanta. As for Baldelli, I’m not sure. Even if the diagnosis was really wrong (in a contract year), does he wear down playing more than a game or two a week?
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Dec 19, 2008 12:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You wouldn’t even take a cheap 1 or 2 year deal for Sheets?
by Randy Booth on Dec 19, 2008 12:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I would expect to see
a Teagarden for Bucholz deal now. Time for the team to cave a little bit and upgrade at one of the few positions that they can both offensively and defensively.
Hate to see it, but where else do you see an upgrade possible? COF? SS? C?
by laxtonto on Dec 18, 2008 11:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We are the same team
Exactly. Perhaps you forgot we had a great offensive team last year. In the Majors we were 3rd in runs, 1st in OBP, and 3rd in SLG. That is a great offense. Why do you think we NEED another bat?
All this with an injured Lowell and Ortiz the whole season.
by drabidea on Dec 19, 2008 9:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
+1,000
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Dec 19, 2008 9:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Geez
That’s just unreal isn’t it? I’m not sure what to make of all that. If the $200mil figure is correct that someone posted about already, then that’s going to do it.
Gnick, though I agree with you somewhat, we got beat by the Rays because some of their young guys just went ballistic on us. They hit what, 18-20 homers in the 7 games, it was just nuts in the end….and we still almost won the thing.
by sydneysox on Dec 18, 2008 11:21 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
If it is a bluff though,
it seems very out of Henry’s character.
I just PRAY he doesn’t end up with the Yankees.
Want 10 years at 200MM, Teix? Have fun wasting your career in D.C.
by Red Peltic on Dec 18, 2008 11:27 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
There’s no way he’s ending up with the Yanks. They can’t spend any more BIG money at this point. It’d be suicide if they sign Teix for $200M.
by Randy Booth on Dec 18, 2008 11:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Who else thinks
That this might just be in part a big fuck you to Boras? Not only will the Sox not play his games, but who else thinks that 3yr/66mil deal the Yankees have been rumored to have extended to Manny will quickly disappear?
by Gnick on Dec 18, 2008 11:29 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Here’s what I think: the Sox have the biggest offer on the table AND Teixeira wants to be a Sox, but Boras keeps pushing the Sox. So what do they do? They say, ok, nevermind — we’re good. And back out … temporarily. How pissed would Teix be if that was the case? Doesn’t make Boras look good, does it? Maybe Boras drops his demands and the Sox sign him…
by Randy Booth on Dec 18, 2008 11:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That seems like a distinct possibility
Theo often works in mysterious ways that aren’t understood until well after the fact, this very well could be one of them.
by Gnick on Dec 18, 2008 11:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure
The Sox have a decent relationship with Boras. I think the offers were probably close (Washington’s may have been the highest). I don’t know if Teix has a preference, except for money—and maybe to be on the east coast. With the offers close, Boras is pushing for more money or years. The Sox hit their limit and, by making it public that their dropping out, they’re trying to finalize things. If the Sox are out, Baltimore, Washington, and Orange County will probably offer less than they would have if they thought the Sox could raise the bar further. Let’s see what happens. If the rumors are correct, I see Teix in DC.
There are plusses and minuses to playing in Boston. We’re all Sox fans, so we think anyone would be crazy not to want to play there.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Dec 19, 2008 9:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
THis is an odd reversal though
Usually teams pretend to be IN the bidding race longer than they really are in order to make their rivals spend more. Now we might be giving Teixeira to the Angels, Orioles, or even Yankees at a lowered price.
by Gnick on Dec 19, 2008 11:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ken Rosenthal was on WEEI
He thinks the Sox are still in it. He sees Henry’s e-mail as posturing, to keep pressure on Boras and make him put his cards on the table.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Dec 19, 2008 12:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
WOW
as much as it makes me happy you guys didnt get him, i feel so bad most of you went to bed thinking he was your new first baseman and well WOW, but like one guy said on here it could be a bluff after all this is BORAS we are talking about …
by I Bleed Pinstripes on Dec 18, 2008 11:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I’d still rather have Youkilis than any combination of Swisher/Matsui/Damon/Cano/Hank etc.
by Red Peltic on Dec 18, 2008 11:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I could care less
I just don’t want Manny or Teix in the Bronx.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Dec 19, 2008 9:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It would seem like a good strategy
but it doesn’t gel with what Henry has done in the past… I hope I’m wrong.
Besides, how many times how many times has someone said “There’s no way the Yankees will sign him TOO!”
by Red Peltic on Dec 18, 2008 11:32 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think the Yankees will at this point in the game…
by Randy Booth on Dec 18, 2008 11:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Its all over
Tex will sign with the Nationals the first of the year. Sad the deals were very similar but far enough apart that winning doesn’t mean anything.
Baseball is God's sport! All Truth Goes Through Three Stages 1.It is ridiculed 2.It is violently opposed 3.Finally, it is accepted as self-evident. kinesiologist
by E5 on Dec 18, 2008 11:34 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
hmm..
maybe he wants to be the “GUY” that ends up the face of a losing franchise …
by I Bleed Pinstripes on Dec 18, 2008 11:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i will say this
if i was Tex which i obviously am not even close and any contender offered me a nice lengthy deal, im sorry guys like Arod, Jeter, Tex, CC will never spend all that money i would go with the contender its a few mill less so what … idk .. im starting to not like this guy … lol
by I Bleed Pinstripes on Dec 18, 2008 11:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The bottom line is, we don’t know what is happening and we don’t know what WILL happen…
by Randy Booth on Dec 18, 2008 11:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Its all about the money
because you can always demand a trade later to a contender. When the deal is a few years down the road it will be more likely a team like the Red Sox will be able trade for him because the risk of the long contract isn’t as high.
Baseball is God's sport! All Truth Goes Through Three Stages 1.It is ridiculed 2.It is violently opposed 3.Finally, it is accepted as self-evident. kinesiologist
by E5 on Dec 18, 2008 11:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This lineup may not sound like much because some of you don't pay attention to the NL but...
Nationals prospective lineup with Teixeira:
1. Milledge (CF)
2. Dukes (RF)
3. Willingham (LF)
4. Teixeira (1B)
5. Zimmerman (3B)
6. Guzman (SS)
7. Belliard (2B)
8. Lopez ( C )
9. Pitcher
Granted, these aren’t marque names, however, bats 1 through 6 can produce some legit offense w/ “TEX” in the lineup. Now, pitching…Whew! They need help.
I think if the NATS are able to sign “Tex” they are showing the fan base that they are serious about developing a contender. The Lerners (owners) and Bowden (GM) want to put a$$es in the seats. This is one way to do it. As well, D.C. is developing the area adjacent to the stadium known as “Half Street”. This is a win / win for the neighborhood and the team. This is no longer the Expos people…It’s the Nationals. That record last year was abominable, they’ve got to do something to prove to the fan base that they want to contend. Signing “TEX” would be a fine beginning.
" We got "The Rod"...What you got? "
by LOUtheMETandNATSfan on Dec 19, 2008 12:09 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Did you say one through six? Including Guzman? I don’t care what he did last year, I’ll always think of him as the worst player in baseball. He could win an MVP and that still wouldn’t change my opinion…
Maybe they should save the money, grab Ben Sheets, a few other arms and see what they can do. I don’t think Teix is a HUGE need for them at this point. Yes, it’s marketing, but they need more than that. I feel like that offense is similar to what the Rays delivered last year…
by Randy Booth on Dec 19, 2008 12:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting
I was thinking that the “proposed” NATS lineup resembled more of the Phillies 1-5/6. I remember making a remark on the Phillies blog (before getting banned) early in the season that their 1-5 was very formidable. I’m gonna take a look at Guzman’s stats to see where you’re coming from.
I worry about Sheets and his healt.
" We got "The Rod"...What you got? "
by LOUtheMETandNATSfan on Dec 19, 2008 12:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Tex, Zimmerman, Dukes, and Milledge
Lots of potential there.
But the pitching. Ugh.
Manny ain't the only bad man.
by tommy.otm on Dec 19, 2008 1:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
concur
" We got "The Rod"...What you got? "
by LOUtheMETandNATSfan on Dec 19, 2008 1:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This shouldnt be a surprize after hearing the quotes from the owners saying these were tough economic times to be making a large signing.
by spinz on Dec 18, 2008 11:35 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
It still doesn’t make sense though. Why get into the bidding war and then two days before they’re close say, “hey, it’s tough times.” They knew this BEFORE they started the bidding….
by Randy Booth on Dec 18, 2008 11:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah it doesnt make sense, im betting the tough times was an excuse because they suddenly realized something else theyr keeping to themselves.
by spinz on Dec 18, 2008 11:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Good to see you guys are just as confused as we are over at Halos Heaven.
Whatever dude.
by Mayheminthehood on Dec 18, 2008 11:38 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Via a message on sosh.net...
Mike Lynch on Ch 5:
Sox are OUT
A source says there is a $200M deal on the table
The Yankees are in it
Boras believes he’ll have a deal sometime tomorrow
Sox only wanted to spend $160M, then were willing to go to $185
by Red Peltic on Dec 18, 2008 11:40 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
200M
Must have come from the Nationals. I really can’t believe that he will got there, I think sometimes the agents control the player’s feelings too much.
by Gnick on Dec 18, 2008 11:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m still saying it… I would not be SHOCKED to see him donning pinstripes in ‘09. Look at the Yanks’ roster… they need him almost as much as the Red Sox do.
by Red Peltic on Dec 18, 2008 11:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We don’t even know if the Yankees have made a contract offer though. As of two days ago they hadn’t.
by Randy Booth on Dec 18, 2008 11:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Remember the “no interest” in one Johnny Damon?
by Red Peltic on Dec 18, 2008 11:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Right, but production’s not really the point. It was that the Yankees had appeared not even to speak to Daemon Johnny Damon until they swooped in at the 11th hour and signed him from under the Sox’ collective noses.
by Red Peltic on Dec 18, 2008 11:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
what does that mean sir
except for at bats Johnny Damon has done exactly what he did in Boston. He’s better and cheaper than Drew. Look at the numbers. Damon has averaged 560 at bats per season with the Yanks and Drew the last 2 seasons??
by 5percenter on Dec 19, 2008 2:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
well
he wasnt exactly horrible last year he batted .303 got some nice hits and gave me a memorable game to watch when he went 6 for 6 and got the game winning hit
by I Bleed Pinstripes on Dec 18, 2008 11:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No, last year was solid, but he still has an arm of a 3-year-old and doesn’t play the greatest defense.
by Randy Booth on Dec 18, 2008 11:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
hahah
very very true lol, cant forget that one play when the sox were at the stadium for a day game and he botched that ball and it rolled on the fence, i tell you what though he is one heck of a personality and sitting in the bleachers call him at roll call you never know what kind of pose or face or whatnot he may make at you .. as far as his arm though yes GARBAGE
by I Bleed Pinstripes on Dec 18, 2008 11:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Theres a littany of
yankee failed free agent acquisitions, johnny damon however, is definitely not one of them. Yes his arm is, what the spanish call el terrible but he had the 5th best UZR for for mlb left fielders. He’s also still one of the best leadoff hitters in the game. It’s gonna be a pain in the ass to replace him next year.
by CasanovaWong on Dec 19, 2008 12:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, but Damon use to be one of the best CENTER fielders. It’s not good when you admit that you can’t play that position any more and resort the moving to left, a much easier position.
by Randy Booth on Dec 19, 2008 12:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
"One of the best leadoff hitters in the game"
Off the top of my head I can think of Soriano, Hanley Ramirez, Reyes, Rollins, McLouth, Ichiro, Granderson, Sizemore, and Roberts. All of whom are better leadoff hitters than Damon.
by Gnick on Dec 19, 2008 12:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah … those guys are def. better.
by Randy Booth on Dec 19, 2008 12:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I would take Ichiro over Rag-Arm any day….guaranteed 35 steals on the year
by Brad West on Dec 19, 2008 12:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
OPS+ of the guys you listed
Hanley- 146
Sizemore- 128
Mclouth- 126
Granderson- 124
Damon- 118
Reyes- 118
Roberts- 117
Rollins-103
Ichiro-102
So besides Hanley who is head and shoulders above everybody else I think you can effectively say Damon is among the best leadoff hitters in the game. Obviously you’d rather have one of the young guys like grady or hanley but damon can still ball. Understandably yall hate his guts but reports of his demise are a little overblown.
by CasanovaWong on Dec 19, 2008 12:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That’s just one stat. I look at the 4 guys below Damon in that category, and I would still choose them over Damon. I MIGHT take Damon over McLouth, but that’d be it…
by Randy Booth on Dec 19, 2008 12:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Obviously
going forward you would take one of the young guys over damon because he will start to fall off but for the past few seasons he was one of the best leadoff guys in the game. OPS+ may be just one stat but its a pretty frickin important one. But whatever I don’t wanna turn this into a johnny damon debate you guys have more important things to worry about.
by CasanovaWong on Dec 19, 2008 1:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Randy:
For my part, I would be totally cool with Damon leading off and playing LF, in a vacuum, if we had a bit more power in CF (say, Beltran). He can cover any LF in the league pretty well, and there’s not MANY good LFs defensively.
I wouldn’t take him pretty much at all at this point, but if the circumstances were different (hadn’t chosen to go to the Yankees, had a little more power out of CF), I’d really like to have him in LF.
"Are you a real doctor, or a doctor like Dr. Pepper is a doctor?"
by Allen Chace on Dec 19, 2008 3:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I wish we had Granderson so bad it hurts.
Unlike Sizemore, he’s generally always had to make up for poor defense on either side of him, and generally does.
"Are you a real doctor, or a doctor like Dr. Pepper is a doctor?"
by Allen Chace on Dec 19, 2008 3:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Also, he's a good guy.
I like Granderson lots. (Not enough to send him a sandwich though.)
"no1 has time to read your long comments, are you writing a book?"
by britsoxfan on Dec 19, 2008 3:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Don’t now how new the info was, but it was posted at 11:32 PM.
by Red Peltic on Dec 18, 2008 11:41 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Whoops, meant to reply to Randy’s comment.
by Red Peltic on Dec 18, 2008 11:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What the hell does Mark Lynch know anyways? He’s broadcast.
by Randy Booth on Dec 18, 2008 11:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Is there still slight hope of the Sox signing him even though they appear out of the sweepstakes?
by blackecho on Dec 18, 2008 11:43 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Yes, as long as this whole thing is calling Boras’ bluff.
by Randy Booth on Dec 18, 2008 11:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Resign Manny
I’m serious, the guy is a monster.
by Gnick on Dec 19, 2008 12:01 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I hope this is an attempt at humor.
by Red Peltic on Dec 19, 2008 12:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I also heard he’s great in the clubhouse.
by Randy Booth on Dec 19, 2008 12:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I got great intangibles. It was actually my aura that won the 2000 WS when I played SS for the Yankees. I willed Scott Brosius to play the best baseball of his career and he did.
by Gnick on Dec 19, 2008 12:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And a real hustle player. I hear he’s like the OF version of David Eckstein,
by Red Peltic on Dec 19, 2008 12:06 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I hope Henry is bluffing...
but I’m going to bed. I’ve got to get up early to drive to Pawtucket tomorrow and hopefully beat the snow.
Reconsider Teix/JHenry… please?
by Red Peltic on Dec 19, 2008 12:08 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I’ve got to get up early and PLOW the snow. I need sleep, too, but I’m afraid there will Henry will send out in e-mail in 5 minutes saying: GOTCHYA!
by Randy Booth on Dec 19, 2008 12:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
…make sure to set your “junk mail settings” on your email’s server
by Brad West on Dec 19, 2008 12:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Haha. I’ll sift through my bulk mail in the morning…. :)
by Randy Booth on Dec 19, 2008 12:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
QUESTION:
If the Sox don’t sign Teixeira, do they make a push and get Jake Peavy?
by Randy Booth on Dec 19, 2008 12:15 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
They better do something….I sure as hell don’t want them to end up like Atlanta & get screwed on all aspects of offseason signings
by Brad West on Dec 19, 2008 12:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, Atlanta doesn’t look good right now…
by Randy Booth on Dec 19, 2008 12:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Nah.
Peavy’s not worth the price in prospects, and you’ll get nearly the same production from Ben Sheets for just money. Sheets is a great option for a team like us, because we’ve got the existing depth (Buch, Bowden, Masterson) to cover him for the inevitable DL stint(s).
"Are you a real doctor, or a doctor like Dr. Pepper is a doctor?"
by Allen Chace on Dec 19, 2008 3:36 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Honestly, if Atlanta doesn’t get Smoltz back, or sign Peavy, they might as well follow the AFL in taking a season off to get there **** together
by Brad West on Dec 19, 2008 12:25 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I hear they’re interested in signing Greg Maddux…
by Randy Booth on Dec 19, 2008 12:26 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He’s almost as fun to watch as Wakefield. Just watch that breaker paint the corner every time and flip a coin to see if he gives up 8 runs or 2
by Brad West on Dec 19, 2008 12:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
..or I might be thinking of Hudson…either way
by Brad West on Dec 19, 2008 12:31 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Tiexera overpaid?
i just think tiexera’s way too overrated! I think he is a grade B player! i thiink those kind of contract is deserved by players like pujos!
by Chine on Dec 19, 2008 1:40 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Pujols (sp) / Teixeira overpaid?
I’m beginning to wonder about the validity of the numbers as well, however, comparing Teixeira’s stats vs. A-Rod stats (averages for four major batting categories) there seems to be some validation for the contract. If we use A-Rod as the benchmark.
A-Rod’s numbers before his big contract with Rangers (age 25): Average over 1st 7 years -
HR – 27
RBI – 85
OBP – .343
AVG – .286
*Keep in mind, 1994 and 1995, A-Rod played only 17 and 48 games respectively and A-Rod’s defensive skills at SS / 3B are more highly sought after than a First baseman’s skills.
Teixeira’s numbers before “possible” big contract with ‘whomever’ (age 28) Average over 1st 6 years -
HR – 33
RBI – 112
OBP – .378
AVG – .290
" We got "The Rod"...What you got? "
by LOUtheMETandNATSfan on Dec 19, 2008 2:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
In fairness
I think that A-Rod’s 1st and 2nd years shouldn’t even be counted due to the fact that he only played 17 and 48 games respectively. So, with some revisionist math and using his first "full" season till he left for the Rangers (total of five years) A-Rod’s numbers look like this:
HR – 37
RBI – 115
OBP – .380
AVG – .314
Long story short, maybe Tex isn’t worth what’s being offered.
" We got "The Rod"...What you got? "
by LOUtheMETandNATSfan on Dec 19, 2008 2:26 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The A-Rod deal was a long time ago...
Tex isn’t getting what A-Rod got, especially after you take into account inflation. He’s getting a lot less.
by BTLove on Dec 19, 2008 1:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Looks like a Bluff according to Ken Rosenthal
"Whether Teixeira joins the Red Sox or another club is an open question. Whether he merits $180 million over eight years — or whatever the final number will be — is another subject of debate.
For now, though, we’re in the familiar Scott Boras Staredown Phase, in which an ardent suitor attempts to call the legendary agent’s bluff.
The Sox are experienced at this game."
and this as well
“Wherever Teixeira ends up, and Boston is still the best guess, his deal is certain to exceed the eight-year, $160 million deal that Ramirez signed with the Red Sox in 2000 — a deal that included $31 million in deferred payments, significantly reducing its present-day value.”
by Ace0407 on Dec 19, 2008 2:10 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Not a Bluff, & Not Out of the Bidding
If the parameters don’t change, the Sox will let him go. The team’s policy is to set a value on a player, and not paying above that. In addition, the length of the deal had to be making them wary, even at “only” 8 years. 8 years would be unprecedented for the current owners/management. I believe that Drew had been the longest FA field contract for them, at five years (Pedroia is not a FA contract, and is also considered to be below market), and Matsuzaka at six years was done to pro-rate the singing bonus over as many years as possible.
As an aside, one should also remember that the cost of acquiring Teixeira also has to include whatever money we would have to eat in trading away Lowell (assuming he’s the odd man out). At least, I’m sure that’s in the team’s calculations.
So when they say they’ll walk away from the deal as it’s currently being presented to them, I believe it. But the real question isn’t whether they’re bluffing, it’s whether Boras/Teixeira is bluffing. If they are, then the Sox will be back at the table when Boras reduces the asking price.
—
As for whether Teixeira is worth it, I think we can all agree that he’s the best FA position player out there this year. But I don’t think he is one of the top 4-5 position players. When the Manny deal was signed, Manny was. Same with the first A-Rod contract, and possibly the second. If the Sox don’t sign Teixeira, that leaves them with money to sign a position player to a big contract in the offseason next year, one who may be more worth it. That may make us less able to compete in 2009, but at the same time, if Ortiz doesn’t bounce back, our offense is going to be weakened regardless whether it’s Tex/Youk or Youk/Lowell manning the corners.
Speaking of Lowell vs. Tex offensively, can anyone try to quantify the projected effect on our offense to sub the latter for the former (assuming Lowell fully recovers)? (If someone has done this calculation elsewhere, a link would be great). I would expect Lowell to hit roughly .280/.340/.480 with 20 HRs and 90 RBIs. For Tex, I’ll ignore the quite possible “1st year in Boston” effect that might drive his numbers down, and project him at .290/.390/.550, with 30 HRs and 115 RBIs. Is that difference worth an extra $12 million/year in salary? I honestly don’t have an opinion on this, just curious.
by argo0 on Dec 19, 2008 6:53 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Actually what I was just about to say. I don’t think it’s them calling Boras’s bluff, it’s them saying “he’s not a necessity, we put our limit, we’re not going to bid back and forth any higher then that limit, so if you say there are suitors in 200 mill range, then we’re all set.”, however, at the same time I don’t think they 100% believe that there’s said offer, and so they are prepared to re-enter negotiations if Boras comes knocking and agrees to look at their type of figures.
Basically, I think that if there is a 200 mil offer out there, that the Sox are genuinely out of the running, but I’m not 100% convinced that there is a 200 mil offer out there
by Realistic on Dec 19, 2008 10:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It also could be because of
Opt out and no-trade clauses, which the Sox don’t give out.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Dec 19, 2008 10:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd give Tex an opt-out after four or five years.
Keep him through his prime years, then let him walk at 33.
Manny ain't the only bad man.
by tommy.otm on Dec 19, 2008 1:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It would be his opt-out though
Not a team option. So most likely you only lose him if he is playing up to (or better than) his contract.
by BTLove on Dec 19, 2008 1:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
Boras has been going from team to team, telling each one there is already a huge offer on the table. Remember that GM who said the Sox were in the lead? I bet that was either Bowden of the Nats or Reagins of the Angels. Boras called them up, and told them the Red Sox made a big offer, prompting them to tell the media the Sox are in the lead.
This time, Boras brought his bluff to the table with the Red Sox, and probably told them that they need to up their offer if they want to sign him. The Sox called the bluff, and said they’re not a factor- which I find hard to believe.
The Sox, Nats, and Angels all have 8-year offers on the table, worth between $160 and $180 million. Boras is just trying to get them all to go higher.
by Schulz on Dec 19, 2008 12:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The assumption that Lowell fully recovers is a big one.
And even if he were fully healthy, you’d expect some normal age-related decline. Another reason for pessimism is that Lowell is no so far away from an abysmal 2005 season, in which he was healthy but completely lost his mechanics for the entire season. I like Tex’s power and on-base skills much more than Lowell’s.
The value added by replacing Lowell with Tex isn’t that great, and certainly not worth the $10 million plus whatever contract subsidy Lowell receives to make him easier to trade. Long-term, however, having Tex may benefit the team more than years 2 and 3 of Lowell.
"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.
by 0157H7 on Dec 19, 2008 12:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly. Long Term.
We can’t just look at 2009 or 2010. We would be signing up Tex for 7 or 8 years. 5 of which he will be right in his prime. Lowell, even if he does recover, is here for two more years, at which point he will certainly be declining. If Lars is legit this would be fine. I just think that’s a big risk.
by BTLove on Dec 19, 2008 1:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Boras + Boston FO
This has to be a bluff by Boston. They see what is going on with other FAs and other Boras clients and its obvious that Boras needs Boston for Manny more than Teix.
IF Teix signs with Boston, MFY, LAA and the Dodgers will get into a bidding war for Manny. IF Teix signs with the Angels, no bidding war. Teix will get his money regardless, Manny’s money is dependent on who is bidding.
I just want this over, either way, so the rest of the off season can start and the Red Sox can pursue other issues: catcher, 5th starter, 4th OF, another bat for the bench, etc.
by SoxAcumen on Dec 19, 2008 11:31 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Ken Rosenthal agrees with you.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Dec 19, 2008 12:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If they know the better deal is with the Nat's, they might be fine with letting him go.
As people have been saying, not only do we value signing Tex, but we also value keeping him away from our competitors, the MFY, the Angels and even the O’s. If the Sox are getting word that they have outbid those teams, but are trailing only the Nats in money, they might be much less likely to up their bid. They might rather overpay than let Tex sign with a competitor, but I’m sure they would be fine with him in the NL.
by BTLove on Dec 19, 2008 1:24 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I love how balanced the poll is.
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Dec 19, 2008 9:45 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
The Sox will still get Teixeira
I think Boras is trying to get a litt more from this tap dance with the sox. I wrote about this on my blog.
by Sonsofsimmons on Dec 20, 2008 11:32 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
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