Red Sox interested in John Smoltz?

by Randy Booth on Dec 10, 2008 1:41 PM EST in News Comment 54 comments

Tom Verducci from SI.com writes the Sox could be interested in signing free agent pitcher John Smoltz:

1. The Red Sox are intrigued with the idea of a potential postseason rotation of Josh Beckett, Diasuke Matsuzaka, Jon Lester and . . . John Smoltz? Despite losing on their gambit last year to bring back Curt Schilling (felled by a shoulder problem), the Red Sox have interest in adding Smoltz, one of the greatest postseason pitchers of his generation. Smoltz, 42, has resumed throwing off a mound after undergoing shoulder surgery in June.

This would be an interesting pickup, but money is of course the question. But the bottom line is, why not? If he's pretty good deal I think the Sox should jump on it. I figure you'll get one of two things: a crappy, old pitcher or a stellar veteran that can get you 12 to 14 wins. I'll take that.

Poll attached!

Poll

Should the Sox sign John Smoltz?

Yes

144 votes

No

57 votes

There are better options on the market, like ______ (list in comments)

12 votes

213 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs | Comment 54 comments

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Comments

Youth, stick with youth

For men, pitching is like sex! You are much more reliable and predictable when your young even if Drugs D has a problem with this!! Remember Schilling’s almost no-hitter? It took so much out of him, he never recovered from that last all-out endeavor. That’s what happens when older guys have to put out in needed situation. Youth like Lester, Paps, even Buchhotz can breeze through such tasks and be back as good as new in 4 days. IMHO FOR PITCHING, go for youth either in trade or through the farm system.

by NG on Dec 10, 2008 1:52 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

We don’t need him to pitch no-hitters, though. We just need him to throw six or seven innings and allow two or three runs. That’s it. We’re all happy in this case…

OverTheMonster.com

by Randy Booth on Dec 10, 2008 2:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Trends, I am talking trends here.

Young pitching on a team can be relied upon for stamina which is important for a long season, imo.

by NG on Dec 10, 2008 2:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Youth is more reliable?

I don’t think that’s true. Clay wasn’t reliable last year, neither were Hughes, Joba or a bunch or others. Sometimes it’s good to have an old guy that you can count on. The problem is that Smoltz is not that guy. However, that’s the reason he’s not going to get a contract that a young guy would get. It would only take a one year deal at relatively small money. He also wouldn’t block the young guys for long. They wouldn’t really be too committed to him.

by BTLove on Dec 10, 2008 2:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Stamina!

No pitcher will always perform great, but older ones can get hurt so easily and these injuries drag on and on. Younger pitchers can stay healthy and if they do get hurt, it is usual minor and short lived. So the lesson is find a good young pitcher and have the best of both worlds!

by NG on Dec 10, 2008 3:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yup.

Good and young would be great. Unfortunately these are the guys everybody wants and take a ransom of money and prospects to acquire. We probably have the best young and good top end of our staff in the league with Beckett, Lester and Dice. (Tamba Bay too) And with Buch and Bowden coming up I think we’re pretty set-up for the long term. Smoltz though, would be a great bridge to those guys.

by BTLove on Dec 10, 2008 7:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Schilling was pretty much burnt toast throughout 2007. It wasn’t just the no-no.

by morineko on Dec 10, 2008 4:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I shouldn't pitch till I'm married?

What about if I don’t actually throw the ball?

Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Dec 10, 2008 7:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

If you don't pitch till you're married...

then you’ll probably be getting married real young.

by BTLove on Dec 10, 2008 7:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Hmm...

If only the whole non-pitching till married thing was combined with the multiple catchers married to…

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Dec 10, 2008 8:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The effect of age on

pitching and other similar human male processes things is unrelated to usage. It just is just a physiological fact of life!

by NG on Dec 11, 2008 9:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Abstinence, NG.

You failed to see the joke.

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Dec 11, 2008 5:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I get it.

I am just telling you that abstinence will not overcome the negative effects of aging, which happen whether you are active or inactive in this particular physiological area!

by NG on Dec 11, 2008 7:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Well, hopefully my wife won't care when we get married.

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Dec 11, 2008 7:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

An abstinence discussion. Awesome. I abstain from this one.

by BTLove on Dec 11, 2008 7:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Ha.

It’ll stop soon. It’s usually the kid arguing against it though.

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Dec 12, 2008 4:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

If the Sox

can pick him up like they picked up Colon last year – why not? Offer him am incentive based contract. If he’s asking for more, then let him go to somebody else.

Man do I hate Longhorn fans, well except for the ones that actually went there.

by mystman995 on Dec 10, 2008 1:57 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

No way he's coming for a minor league deal

John Smoltz would not accept that. I would say it would be more similar to Schilling last year. one year at $8-10 mil. I could be down for that.

by BTLove on Dec 10, 2008 2:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Smoltz

I think it would take less that that to sign him. more like $6-8 mil.

by Schulz on Dec 10, 2008 2:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Sign me up then.

Pay him from the Curt Schilling Memorial Old Guy Who Might Not Even Pitch Fund

by BTLove on Dec 10, 2008 2:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

you mean the CSMOGWMNEPF?

by Schulz on Dec 10, 2008 2:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Exactly.

Hey, if we can sign Smoltz for $6mil, that still leaves an extra $4mil. I’m thinking one more year of Timlin?

by BTLove on Dec 10, 2008 2:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

$4million

Is a lot to pay a guy to run around in the “Walley the Green Monster” suit.

by Schulz on Dec 10, 2008 2:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Well didn't Colon

have to rehab back up to the majors? Sounds like Smoltz should be mlb-ready by opening day and a healthy Smoltz won’t be in the minors.

Man do I hate Longhorn fans, well except for the ones that actually went there.

by mystman995 on Dec 10, 2008 3:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Exactly

My point is he won’t be getting a Colon deal, who wasn’t guaranteed a spot in the majors. (from what i remember he could opt out of the deal by a certain date if he was still in the minors) If Smoltz were to sign he would get a spot on the 25 man roster, guaranteed.

by BTLove on Dec 10, 2008 3:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I like Smoltz, but...

it is time for this FHOF to retire. I would love to see Smoltz and Maddux retire together and go into the HOF together. Hang it up. I just don’t think this is a smart move for us. The vet is coming off of surgery. I just think we need to spend our money elsewhere.

~ ROLL TIDE ~

GO SOX!!

by Bama Sox on Dec 10, 2008 2:06 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

And Glavine...

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Dec 10, 2008 7:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

and Glavine...

What about Steve Avery…Joke!

~ ROLL TIDE ~

GO SOX!!

by Bama Sox on Dec 10, 2008 11:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Ouch

Bad memories. Never mention Steve Avery again.

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Dec 11, 2008 9:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Steve Avery

~ ROLL TIDE ~

GO SOX!!

by Bama Sox on Dec 11, 2008 6:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't want Smoltz for his 42nd year

no offense to him, but he’s old, coming off of SHOULDER SURGERY, and a Type B free agent. If we’re going old, I’d rather sign Pettitte, who won’t cost a draft pick. If we want great pitchers, I’d go for Burnett or Lowe.

Incidentally, it’s absolutely amazing to me that Smoltz has spent 20 years with the same team.

"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.

by 0157H7 on Dec 10, 2008 2:24 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I thought Type B's don't cost a pick

The team recieves a compensatory sandwich pick, but not from the signing team.

by BTLove on Dec 10, 2008 2:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes

Smoltz being a type B means nothing to the team that signs him. #’s other points are all good tho.

by Schulz on Dec 10, 2008 2:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

If not the signing team

then from whom?

"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.

by 0157H7 on Dec 10, 2008 3:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The pick is inbetween the first and second round

It doesn’t come from anybody. So when the first round ends, it goes to the supplemental first round and then to the second round. This supplemental round is just stuck in there by MLB and doesn’t result in any team losing any pick. If a team loses a type A FA they get the other team’s first rounder (as long as it is outside the top 15) and they get a supplemental round pick. For losing a type B, the team only gets a supplemental round pick.

In the 2005 draft supplemental round we chose Clay, Jed, and Bowden with the picks received for losing OCab, DLowe and Pedro. In other words breaking up that 2004 WS team wasn’t all bad.

by BTLove on Dec 10, 2008 4:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The more I look at it...

The value teams get from these compensatory picks is incredible. The yanks drafted Ian kennedy and Joba as compensation for Tom Gordon. We got Hagadone for losing Alex Gonzalez.

The system truly incentivizes letting your own FA’s walk if there’s another guy who is a reasonable replacement. For example after 2004, when we let OCab walk and brought in Renteria for an extra $2 mil per, we knew we would gain two picks. We used those two picks to select Jacoby and Lowrie. Damn, we better let Tek walk.

by BTLove on Dec 10, 2008 4:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

did we loose a pick for Renteria? or was he type B?

by Schulz on Dec 11, 2008 1:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah I guess we did.

So the result of signing Renteria over Cabrera was to gain a supplemental pick and move up a few spots in the first round.

by BTLove on Dec 11, 2008 3:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

If the Sox want frequently injured pitchers, there’s this Ben Sheets guy. I heard he’s pretty good (when he can pitch.)

by morineko on Dec 10, 2008 4:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

more money and more years for sheets...

If the Sox think Smoltz could be healthy for a year, I think he would be a good bridge until Buch or Bowden is ready to break in (hopefully by mid-season).

by BTLove on Dec 10, 2008 4:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Let me prefrece this by saying that I voting no because I don’t think we should pay what he deserves. That being said, I think people are really undervaluing him. Colon like deal? Yes both are coming off injury at a late stage in their career, but Colon did it after struggling for a couple of seasons, and even in his good years he didn’t have the kind of consistency or as good numbers as Smoltz. Even including injury-cut short seasons, Smoltz hasn’t has a season ERA above 3.50 or a WHIP above 1.2 in over a decade. Second, comparing Maddux to him because they ran similar careers paths, and Maddux is retiring is also unfair to him because even though Maddux was probably the better of the two when they were both in their primes, Smoltz has aged better as evident that he is still posting quality numbers (while Maddux numbers started slipping as he approached his late 30’s).

Now, he is coming off of injury at an old age, so seeing if he makes good recovery would be an obviously precursor, and you could argue that “hey he pitches in the NL”, which are two reasons I don’t want him signed. But suggesting he is worth a Colon like deal or that he should just retire is selling short a pitcher who still has it in him to pitch successfully

by Realistic on Dec 10, 2008 4:58 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Oops! “preface”, not prefrece (not sure where that came from)

by Realistic on Dec 10, 2008 4:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes please.

Smoltz is a bad ass. Ya, he’s old, but I’d definitely give him $6-8M base plus major incentives. Hell, I’d even give him a vesting option for 2010. Say 25 starts.

Ya, he only threw 50 innings last year, but in those fifty innings he had an ERA+ of 167.
2007, 204 innings, 137 ERA+
2006, 232 innings, 127 ERA+
2005, 230 innings, 138 ERA+

Plus, we need someone to fill the grizzled vet role vacated by Timlin. Moreover, even if he can’t start, the thought of Smoltz coming out of the ’pen in the 8th is… drool…

Worst, case scenario, we’re out one year’s salary on him. I’d much rather take a chance on him than on Burnett, Sheets, etc.

Manny ain't the only bad man.

by tommy.otm on Dec 10, 2008 7:08 PM EST reply actions 1 recs

+1

by BTLove on Dec 10, 2008 7:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

vets win titles

And thats the only reason Theo gave schill a contract last year. Young cant get it done “Tampa Bay”.
Unlike Billy Bean how he thinks the playoffs is a giant gamble.Theo thinks vets with a good winning percentage can effect the playoff out come. You could baby Smoltz threw the year aka Roger Clemens and have him fresh for the playoffs. We have the money and we have the staff no brainer.

by Red Sox #1 Fan on Dec 10, 2008 7:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

This

by Schulz on Dec 11, 2008 1:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

+1

by BTLove on Dec 10, 2008 7:12 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Reply fail?

Or just to this whole post in general?

Well, I will appreciate for you to keep my zingers out of your mouth!

by BoSox415 on Dec 10, 2008 7:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

reply fail

by BTLove on Dec 10, 2008 7:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Smoltz would be too expensive, me thinks

Mother---- him and John Wayne!

by MerryGoByeBye on Dec 10, 2008 9:35 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

one year 6-7 million or no thanks

by matzushocka45 on Dec 10, 2008 10:04 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

How about

One year, $6MM plus $100K for every start he makes.

If he throws 30 starts, that’s $9MM
15 starts, $7.5MM
0 starts, big waste of $6MM

You get the idea.

by Schulz on Dec 11, 2008 1:42 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

For it.

by BTLove on Dec 11, 2008 3:28 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I read at the end of the season

That Smoltz was likely pitching out of the ‘pen for the remainder of his career. I don’t know if that’s true or not. Regardless, I’m a huge Smoltz fan. The guy is nails. NAILS.

"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.

by SoxDevil on Dec 11, 2008 12:41 PM EST reply actions 0 recs