Dustin Pedroia: Gold Glover extraordinaire
by Randy Booth on Nov 8, 2008 1:23 PM EST
in News
61 comments
via jkmckenna.files.wordpress.com
Dustin Pedroia is your 2008 American League Gold Glover at second base.
Old news? Maybe. We haven't really talked about Pedroia winning the Gold Glove because I sense we're all waiting for something a little bit bigger. And I think everyone knows what I mean when I mean "bigger."
But we can't overlook this award. I really feel like this is one of the best honors in baseball. Obviously the MVP award and the Cy Young have their flash, but Gold Gloves award defense -- the ballet of baseball. Perhaps the most overlooked aspect of the sport but, in my mind, the most important.
How many runs do you think Pedroia saved this season? I think it's too many to really count. Sure, you can throw a stat at me from a sabermatrician but I know what I saw. Even if the sabermatrician agreed with me, I still know what I saw. He, without a doubt, had the best defensive season of any second baseman I have ever seen.
The bottom line is this: he was great.
Pedroia's Gold Glove just adds to a great list the Sox already have. Kevin Youkilis, Mike Lowell and Jason Varitek all have one Gold Glove. Coco Crisp, as we all know, deserves one. It's evident that the defense wasn't what let the Sox down this year.
Regardless of what happens Nov. 18 (that's when the AL MVP is announced), this was an amazing season for Dusty. MVP or not, we won't be forgetting the year of the "grittiest" player in all of sports.
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Good pick
I think Mark Ellis has more range and all, but Dusty is a really smooth fielder. GG are dumb, but this one actually means something because Dusty had a great season with the glove as well as with the bat.
Mother---- him and John Wayne!
by MerryGoByeBye on Nov 8, 2008 2:28 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Agreed, for the most part
I agree with everything you said except that this one means something. Yeah, Pedroia deserves to be recognized for his outstanding defense, and yeah, he deserves to be MVP this year. But because the GGs often go to guys who hit well but field average or slightly above average at best and not the best fielders, as far as I’m concerned they never actually mean anything.
by RSNexile on Nov 8, 2008 2:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, you're very much right
Michael Young, Torii Hunter, Nate McLouth are all guys who are good hitters/okay fielders (not sure about McLouth being ‘okay’, but I’ll go with it). Which is sad, because guys like Carlos Gomez and Chris Young will never have the chance to win an award they truly deserve.
I think it means something because it’s great to see Dusty getting any kind of award. :)
Mother---- him and John Wayne!
by MerryGoByeBye on Nov 8, 2008 2:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Defense
First off, congrats to Pedroia, he deserves it.
Also, don’t forget about Ellsbury when you mention the Red Sox defense. I expect him to win multiple gold gloves in the future. The kid can cover the entire outfield. Sure he didn’t hit .300 this year as some of us (including me) expected, but he made up for it with stellar defense.
by Schulz on Nov 8, 2008 2:37 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
LOL
Ellsbury will never hit above .280.
by schmosterballs92 on Nov 8, 2008 2:44 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
LOL indeed
Kid’s got a .293 career average. Now run along.
Manny ain't the only bad man.
by tommy.otm on Nov 8, 2008 4:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Gold Gloves
Good for Pedroia, it’ll help his HOF resume in twenty years.
But I agree with you guys. These things don’t mean you are a good fielder. They mean that you are a popular player who is a good hitter who at one time might have been an exceptional fielder. I mean we all know the Derek Jeter argument. He is maybe the worst defensive shortstop ever. (really good Bill James article about that on FieldingBible.) This year in NL Nate McLouth won in the outfield and there are arguments that he was one of the worst in the league as well. So, good for Dusty, who actually deserved it probably because Ellis didn’t play enough games, but the award is dumb.
by BTLove on Nov 8, 2008 2:50 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I feel like McLouth is just stretched in CF.
His offensive contributions are good enough to hold down a corner, especially RF, if the Pirates decided to make that switch…
"Are you a real doctor, or a doctor like Dr. Pepper is a doctor?"
by Allen Chace on Nov 9, 2008 4:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Pedroia's very good.
But I don’t know that he’s a a genuine gold glover. He probably deserves it more than Jeter deserved his, but I think they both get them for similar reasons – good bats, good hustle, dirty uniforms, big market teams, solid D.
I’d probably give it to Ellis. And I was extremely impressed by Iwamora’s defense in the ALCS. He definitely robbed a couple hits.
Manny ain't the only bad man.
by tommy.otm on Nov 8, 2008 4:28 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Dusty is a far better fielder than Aki
I think Dusty is the 2nd best fielding at his position in the AL.
Mother---- him and John Wayne!
by MerryGoByeBye on Nov 8, 2008 5:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Iwamora, from what I’ve seen, is pretty nasty. But I don’t know if I’d say he’s better than Dusty…
by Randy Booth on Nov 8, 2008 5:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Dusty isn't 'far' better than Aki
But he’s indeed better. Aki is average, as far as I know (not to take anything on him, he’s a fine second baseman).
Mother---- him and John Wayne!
by MerryGoByeBye on Nov 8, 2008 6:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought he won like 82 GGs in Japan.
And he’s got more range than Dusty.
I’m not saying he’s more deserving, but I was impressed in the ALCS.
Manny ain't the only bad man.
by tommy.otm on Nov 8, 2008 6:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I could be wrong here
But wasn’t he a power third baseman in Japan? Quite a change coming to the MLB then, I guess…
Mother---- him and John Wayne!
by MerryGoByeBye on Nov 8, 2008 6:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You are correct sir.
Manny ain't the only bad man.
by tommy.otm on Nov 9, 2008 12:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm a Rays fan
And Aki’s a darned good second baseman defensively, but Pedroia is better. As for the best in the majors, I’d take Utley.
by staplemaniac on Nov 9, 2008 2:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Utley is VERY good.
Okay with the bat too, from what I hear.
"Are you a real doctor, or a doctor like Dr. Pepper is a doctor?"
by Allen Chace on Nov 9, 2008 4:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Utley is a beast
A very underrated guy all around.
Mother---- him and John Wayne!
by MerryGoByeBye on Nov 9, 2008 10:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know how Utley can be underrated. Everyone knows he’s been the best 2B-man in the league for years now.
by Randy Booth on Nov 9, 2008 10:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, he's the best 2B-man in the league and everyone knows it
But guys like him and Pujols are always underrated because they’re much better. They’re not just the best.
Mother---- him and John Wayne!
by MerryGoByeBye on Nov 9, 2008 11:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
got to love Pedroia
Baseball is God's sport! All Truth Goes Through Three Stages 1.It is ridiculed 2.It is violently opposed 3.Finally, it is accepted as self-evident. kinesiologist
by E5 on Nov 8, 2008 11:11 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Seriously, how many runs do you think he saved over an average second basemen?
I’m not looking to debate the fielding metrics against your opinion. I’m just curious exactly how good you think he was a numerical scale, as a smart Red Sox fan. For reference, 3-4 players tend to finish at least +10 runs each year and Mark Ellis and Chase Utley seem to be consistent +20 run players. Do you think Pedroia was +20? +30? +40?
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
by Sky Kalkman on Nov 9, 2008 9:59 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
He’s better than the average second baseman, but I don’t think he’s +40…
by Randy Booth on Nov 9, 2008 10:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The average second baseman is +/- 0, by definition
So we’ve narrowed your opinion to somewhere between 0 and +40 runs… I’m guessing that if you think he was better than Mark Ellis, you put him at least +20 runs. And if he had the best defensive season of any second baseman you’ve ever seen, that’s got to push him higher, right?
Or by “of anyone I’ve ever seen” are you only counting players who you watched for most of a full season, which might include just Red Sox guys or guys from a few teams from the past few years? Maybe you could clear up what you mean by that phrase?
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
by Sky Kalkman on Nov 9, 2008 11:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Let's see
Dewan’s plus-minus has Pedroia second in the AL with +15, behind Ellis with +26 (3rd is Polanco with +14, 4th is Inglett with +7). That’s plays, not runs. If we presume that an average 2Bman had a plus minus of 0, then Pedroia made 15 plays that our average defender would not.
Most of the plays Pedroia would make would be on ground balls or line drives that would otherwise be singles. Maybe he jumps and saves a few gappers. Never does he stop a home run or triple. Still let’s be generous and say that the run value of each hit is .5 runs, and that each play steals a hit away. Pedroia probably saves around 7.5 runs over an average 2Bman. Over a replacement player, he’d probably be better.
So I’d say less than 10 runs per season. By my reasoning, only Utley would be a +20 runs defender (23), while Ellis would be +13 runs.
"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.
by 0157H7 on Nov 9, 2008 11:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The typically used value of a "play" is .8 runs
That’s the linear weights difference between a single (+.5 runs for the offense) and an out (-.3 runs for the offense). So +15 plays is about +12 runs.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
by Sky Kalkman on Nov 9, 2008 3:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This doesn't take into account double plays.
I don’t know of a stat that shows how many of those + plays turned into double plays, but it seems like some of them probably would, making him probably a little better than that +12 runs. He did start and turn more double plays than Ellis this year, though he had many more chances.
Ellis is the better fielder by any measure, but he didn’t play that much and is a worse hitter, both factors for the gold glove voters.
by BTLove on Nov 9, 2008 4:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Right, almost none of the fielding metrics available address double-plays.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
by Sky Kalkman on Nov 9, 2008 4:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sarcasm?
Not everyone has to use stats Sky. Some people can use their experience to judge these things.
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 10, 2008 5:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Pedroia
Is my all-time favorite player. How can you not be impressed by a guy who is almost definately shorter than you, but he can hot .320 and hits double-digit home runs a year? Gold-Glove caliber defense, and a big mouth to top it all off?
Hall of Famer – knock on wood- I’m calling it. He stays healthy, but I’m pretty sure he would play through most minor injuries, and he will be a perennial All-Star, Gold Glover, and MVP candidate. Do not trade him under any circumstances. This guy is the next big thing.
Well, I'll appreciate for you to keep my zingers outta your mouth!
by BoSox415 on Nov 9, 2008 1:21 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
He's a great player.
Hall of Fame, hell no! Hall of Very Good, sure. Utley or Hanley Ramirez are about the only middle-infielders in this generation I can see getting into the HoF.
"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.
by 0157H7 on Nov 9, 2008 2:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Looks like Hanley will stick at SS
I know we might not have won last years WS, but this trade is looking dumber every passing second…
Mother---- him and John Wayne!
by MerryGoByeBye on Nov 9, 2008 2:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We traded Hanley Ramirez
for 2 years of Lowell and a couple years of Beckett. None of the other three guys we traded panned out (though Sanchez threw a no-hitter).
Lowell, in his two years, hit .284 / .339 / .475 (2006) and .324 / .378 / .501 (2007). He hit well in the playoffs and provided strong defense. Hard to take exception to that.
Beckett has given us one bad year, one great year, and one good-mediocre year. He was heroic in the 07 postseason. It’s hard to be too critical of his performance.
Hanley probably wouldn’t have been called up until 2007, and there’s no guarantee that he would’ve flourished in Boston. I think this trade was a win for both teams, but the Sox got two good players out of it, while the Marlins only got an all-bat, no-glove SS.
"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.
by 0157H7 on Nov 9, 2008 3:16 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Hanley is the second best player in all of baseball
And he’s like 14 years old. Lowell and Becks are great players. It’s just hard to know we had that Ramirez kid…
Mother---- him and John Wayne!
by MerryGoByeBye on Nov 9, 2008 4:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Beckett
Without Beckett, the Sox wouldn’t have won the 2007 World Series, Hanley or no Hanley. For that reason, I think the trade was worth it. Maybe I’ll regret it 5 years down the road though…
by Schulz on Nov 9, 2008 8:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No question it was worth it.
We won a World Series because of Josh. (and Lowell). Even if Hanley goes on to be the best player in the history of baseball, it was worth it. Well, maybe not, but I don’t think we’ll regret it. We can always just go and get Hanley back when Florida can’t afford him.
by BTLove on Nov 9, 2008 9:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Nov 10, 2008 7:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They did just give him a huge-ass contract this summer.
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 10, 2008 5:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Rec’d
"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.
by SoxDevil on Nov 10, 2008 2:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He could be a Joe Morgan type HOFer.
I think Dusty’d kill himself if that’s why he got in though.
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 9, 2008 4:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
How did Joe Morgan get in?
aside from being an awesome baseball player.
The funny thing about joe morgan is that as much as he talks shit about statheads, he embodies that player that they value. Not great in the traditional counting stats, but his career obp is .392. He had an opb of .466 in 1975. Led the league in obp 4 times and in OPS twice. And at 2nd base. career OPS+ of 132, better than Dusty’s this year, and he played until he was 40.
I actually never knew he was that good until I just looked it up. Damn.
by BTLove on Nov 9, 2008 5:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, that's my point.
He was a player that didn’t have stats that stuck in your memory, but he was a memorable player. It is the Hall of “FAME”, remember? That’s why Schill’s in, no question.
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 10, 2008 5:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Who would be in w/o Joe Morgan
I didn’t remember Joe Morgan’s stats because I was born the year he retired and I had never actually looked them up. Look at his numbers, he’s definitely a top 5 second baseman ever, probably second behind Rogers Hornsby. And its not just that he played forever and accumulated big counting stats. His OPS+ was awesome his whole career.
If Joe Morgan was not in the Hall of Fame, there would only be like 50 players in and only one second baseman. Joe Morgan was awesome. Look up the numbers.
by BTLove on Nov 12, 2008 12:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
BTLove is correct.
Cringe-worthy as an announcer, awe-inspiring as a player. No doubt about it.
"Are you a real doctor, or a doctor like Dr. Pepper is a doctor?"
by Allen Chace on Nov 12, 2008 5:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You proved my point, you realize, right?
He’s not one of the players that people talk about because of his stats.
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 12, 2008 4:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
WTF?
Joe Morgan is a dumb mfer, but he was one of the best at his position.
Mother---- him and John Wayne!
by MerryGoByeBye on Nov 9, 2008 6:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
See above.
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 10, 2008 5:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Why not Pedroia if he keeps this up.
if Pedroia could continue to hit the way he did this year (I’m not saying that will happen) for another 15 years (unlikely) he would be a sure-fire first ballot Hall of Famer. I think he has the talent, now the question is if he can stay injury free and age well. Utley has 4 good years in the books, but he is already 29. Dusty is only 25 and has 2 good years in already. It doesn’t take 3,000 hits to get in as a 2nd baseman.
by BTLove on Nov 9, 2008 4:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ROY his first year, likely MVP his second
and already a Gold Glove. Give him time.
Well, I'll appreciate for you to keep my zingers outta your mouth!
by BoSox415 on Nov 9, 2008 5:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, because Gold Gloves always go to the best fielders
http://inplaynoouts.blogspot.com/ - A blog about teams I like, written by me.
by Carl Johnson on Nov 9, 2008 6:54 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Who else would they give them to?
The bitterest Angel fans?
In all seriousness, Mark Ellis was the best fielding 2B this season. But it’s not at all far-fetched to say that, this season, DP can make serious claim to the 2nd spot on the list. Better than most years. Better than Jeter or Michael Young getting it at SS, for example.
"Are you a real doctor, or a doctor like Dr. Pepper is a doctor?"
by Allen Chace on Nov 9, 2008 8:05 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Rec'd
The bitterest Angel fan. LOL.
Manny ain't the only bad man.
by tommy.otm on Nov 9, 2008 8:41 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Would make for a good children's book
Kinda like The Little Engine That Could, minus the ‘could’ part, of course.
"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.
by 0157H7 on Nov 9, 2008 10:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think that title would be:
The Little Engine That OMG Please Shut Up
"Are you a real doctor, or a doctor like Dr. Pepper is a doctor?"
by Allen Chace on Nov 10, 2008 12:31 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Littlest Panther
"no1 has time to read your long comments, are you writing a book?"
by britsoxfan on Nov 10, 2008 10:43 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Ooh, nice.
"Are you a real doctor, or a doctor like Dr. Pepper is a doctor?"
by Allen Chace on Nov 10, 2008 2:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
GGs
GGs don’t mean sh+t. Its nice for pedrioa to win one and yes he had a good year with the glove, but until Pujols wins one for playing first then they are meaningless.
Pujols is a ridiculously great fielder, but for some weird combination of his incredible hitting and right handedness he gets overlooked every year. Michael Young SS, c’mon that’s just a joke that he got it this year.
by sydneysox on Nov 9, 2008 10:56 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I think that the BBWAA hates Pujols for some reason.
Maybe they misjudged him early in his career?
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 10, 2008 5:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Re:Dustin Pedroia: Gold Glover extraordinaire
A player who is largely influenced by his desire, who doesn’t even want to miss a workout, whether it is November or any other month of the year. Those are the qualities that made Dustin Pedroia as the Amerucan League’s Most Valuable Player. Dustin Pedroia , from Woodland, California, of the Boston Red Sox. Pedroia does for his team what short-term installment loans can do for your budget if you’re in a temporary jam. His play has been outstanding, and in his rookie year, in which he won the American League Rookie of the Year award in 2007, he gave some strong indicators that his game was massive. He has a .326 batting average, barely missing the batting title which went to Joe Mauer of the Twins, 83 RBI, 54 doubles, only 52 strikeouts in 653 times at the plate, 20 for 21 in stolen bases. Oh yeah, and on defense he won the Golden Glove award, and the last time a second baseman won that award was in 1959 (Nellie Fox of the Chicago White Sox.) Like installment loans, he is conveniently there for his team when they need him. No hassle, no frills, he comes to play. Small loans can do the same in your time of budget emergency. Click to read more on Short Term Installment Loans
by shortterminstallmentloans on Dec 1, 2008 1:42 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
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