2008 SBN Baseball Awards: MVP

by Randy Booth on Nov 7, 2008 12:08 PM EST in SBNation Awards Comment 31 comments

I honestly believe we, the writers of SBN, will prove to be correct when the real MVP award is announced:

American League	1st	2nd	3rd	4th	5th	6th	7th	8th	9th	10th	Points
Dustin Pedroia	5	3	4	2	1	-	-	2	-	-	155
Joe Mauer	2	3	2	2	2	1	1	1	-	-	109
Grady Sizemore	5	2	-	-	1	1	-	1	2	-	106
Kevin Youkilis	2	-	2	3	1	4	-	1	2	-	98
Alex Rodriguez	2	1	4	-	4	-	-	-	1	1	96
Josh Hamilton	1	1	-	3	3	1	1	-	1	-	73
Justin Morneau	1	3	1	1	-	1	-	-	-	2	63
Carlos Quentin	-	-	2	2	-	2	2	2	2	-	58
Carlos Pena	-	1	-	-	-	3	1	1	-	-	31
Cliff Lee	-	1	-	-	2	-	-	1	-	-	24
Milton Bradley	-	-	-	1	-	-	1	2	2	2	23
Aubrey Huff	-	-	-	1	-	1	-	1	-	2	17
Roy Halladay	-	-	1	-	-	-	-	1	1	-	13
Miguel Cabrera	-	-	-	-	-	-	2	1	-	1	12
Evan Longoria	-	-	-	-	1	-	-	-	1	2	10
B. J. Upton	-	1	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	9
Ian Kinsler	-	-	-	-	-	-	1	-	2	-	8
Francisco Rodriguez	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	1	1	-	5
Alexei Ramirez	-	-	-	-	-	-	1	-	-	-	4
Brian Roberts	-	-	-	-	-	-	1	-	-	-	4
Vladimir Guerrero	-	-	-	-	-	-	1	-	-	-	4
Jim Thome	-	-	-	-	-	-	1	-	-	-	4
Nick Markakis	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	2	2
Joe Nathan	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	1	1
Jermaine Dye	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	1	1

National League	1st	2nd	3rd	4th	5th	6th	7th	8th	9th	10th	Points
Albert Pujols	13	4	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	218
Lance Berkman	1	2	3	4	1	1	4	-	1	-	113
Hanley Ramirez	-	4	1	3	2	-	1	1	1	-	86
David Wright	-	1	3	1	2	3	2	3	-	1	95
Chipper Jones	-	1	3	3	1	5	-	-	-	-	85
Ryan Howard	3	1	1	1	-	-	1	-	-	1	71
Chase Utley	-	1	1	1	4	2	2	-	2	1	71
Ryan Braun	-	-	1	3	-	2	1	1	2	1	51
Carlos Beltran	-	-	3	-	-	-	-	3	1	1	36
Manny Ramirez	-	1	-	1	1	-	1	-	-	1	27
Matt Holliday	-	-	-	-	1	2	-	-	4	-	24
CC Sabathia	-	2	-	-	-	-	1	-	-	1	23
Carlos Delgado	-	-	-	-	2	1	-	1	1	-	21
Aramis Ramirez	-	-	-	-	2	1	-	-	1	2	19
Ryan Ludwick	-	-	-	-	-	-	1	3	2	2	17
Jose Reyes	-	-	-	-	1	-	2	1	-	-	8
Brad Lidge	-	-	-	1	-	-	-	-	-	-	8
Carlos Lee	-	-	-	-	-	-	1	-	1	-	6
Pat Burrell	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	1	-	1	4
Brian McCann	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	1	-	1	4
Prince Fielder	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	1	-	1	4
Stephen Drew	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	1	-	-	3
Geovany Soto	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	2	2
Tim Lincecum	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	1	-	2
Brian Giles	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	1	1

Yup, Dustin Pedroia is MVP. I didn't even need to beg for that. Funny, huh? I hope we see this come true on a bigger stage very soon...

Thoughts?

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Looks right to me

by RSNexile on Nov 7, 2008 12:15 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Nov 7, 2008 4:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I didn't think Pujols was such a run-away in the NL

I also think A-Rod is too high, but those are minor quibbles. I might be more upset if I was an NL fan.

"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.

by SoxDevil on Nov 7, 2008 12:47 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

P.S.

Pedroia is a destroyah!

"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.

by SoxDevil on Nov 7, 2008 12:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Pujols and Pedroia are the right players to win

Sizemore had the best season, but the Indians had a lost season. Pujols was just too fucking good to not win this one.

The homer in me says Pedroia is the only choice to get the award, but I would have been okay with Sizemore or Mauer getting it.

Mother---- him and John Wayne!

by MerryGoByeBye on Nov 7, 2008 2:13 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

For me the playoffs-only thing is acceptable.

Absent a historically awesome season (40+ homeruns along with a .370 or higher OBP), it’s fine to choose the best players on playoff contenders. For example, David Ortiz should have won the award in 2006, instead of Morneau, because his hitting was far superior.

The Rays didn’t have anyone with qualifying numbers, nor did the Angels. So that leaves Chicago and Boston; Minnesota can also go up there because they forced a 1-game playoff. The best eligible position players with full seasons are:
Pedroia, Youk
Mauer, Morneau
Carlos Quentin (missed last month)

Of these, I’d be fine with any pick except Morneau (who is the non-Pedroia favorite)

"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.

by 0157H7 on Nov 7, 2008 2:55 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Morneau is underrated

He might just be the most underrated MVP winner ever.

Mother---- him and John Wayne!

by MerryGoByeBye on Nov 7, 2008 3:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Seriously?

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Nov 7, 2008 3:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yep

I don’t think he’s great, but I think he’s fine overall. Not that he’s one of the most underrated MVP winners in the sense that he’s one of the best, but people don’t talk at all about him. In the HR Derby they even called him Jason.

He shouldn’t have won the MVP, but that doesn’t make him an average, or even bad, player.

Mother---- him and John Wayne!

by MerryGoByeBye on Nov 7, 2008 8:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

My point was

Nearly everyone agrees he shouldn’t have won that MVP. And many call him off because of that. Which is wrong because, while he’s not something else, he’s a very fine player.

Mother---- him and John Wayne!

by MerryGoByeBye on Nov 7, 2008 8:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I think many people on the blogs you/we read realize Morneau is not MVP caliber

But he’s had many many mainstream articles written about his candidacy. This blog even had one of its fake pro-Pedroia campaigns “sling mud” at Morneau.

He’s not even All-Star caliber: .375/.500 from a mediocre fielding 1B?

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Nov 7, 2008 8:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, okay

But he’s only getting MVP love because this is a hard season to find a MVP. Sizemore was the best player, but the Indians sucked, and it’s not like he had Bonds numbers. His numbers were fine. And for Morneau, he should not get the MVP, he’s not even the best player in his team.

You do realize that only 1 starting 1B had a better line than .375/.500 in the AL, right? And as far as I know, Morneau is not a mediocre fielder, he’s average. As a whole, I think he’s a better player than Howard. And Howard is getting major love for NL MVP.

Mother---- him and John Wayne!

by MerryGoByeBye on Nov 7, 2008 9:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes, there's a large group of players who were similarly productive.

But Morneau’s not even in that group. Even if you give him league-average at 1B, I’ve got him at 3.5 WAR, somewhere between 20th and 25th among position players in the AL. That’s a full two wins below the Pedroia/ARod/Mauer/Roberts group. And four wins below Sizemore.

As for 1B, I count Jason Giambi, Kevin Youkilis, and Carlos Pena as three other .375/.500 guys. Miguel Cabrera had a .350 OBP, but a .535 SLG.

Yes, Morneau had a better season than Howard, but that’s really not saying all that much.

For what it’s worth, I use “mediocre” and “average” to mean the same thing.

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Nov 7, 2008 9:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not saying Morneau is in that group

He’s not. He’s not one of the best, he’s just not. But he’s still a fine played that gets bashed sometimes for winning an award he shouldn’t have won.

Only Youk had a really better line than that on the AL. Giambi, Pena, Miggy and Morneau had similiar lines. I’m leaving Tex out of this. These 4 guys are not MVP worthy this season, but they’re good at what they do.

That’s saying how more crazy is the Howard taking the MVP talk. Morneau is just a guy in the race, while in the NL it seems like it will be between Howard and Pujols. RBIs is a fucked up stat, but that wins awards and the vote of people who don’t understand baseball at all.

Okay, I get you on that, but I think ‘mediocre’ is worse than average. Like Howard.

Mother---- him and John Wayne!

by MerryGoByeBye on Nov 7, 2008 10:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I think we agree more than we originally thought.

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Nov 7, 2008 10:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, agreed

My original point of Morneau being underrated just came out wrong. So that’s on me.

Mother---- him and John Wayne!

by MerryGoByeBye on Nov 7, 2008 10:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Morneau makes me sad inside.

"no1 has time to read your long comments, are you writing a book?"

by britsoxfan on Nov 7, 2008 4:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Mourn-o?

"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.

by SoxDevil on Nov 10, 2008 2:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Morneau

I’m surprised Morneau wasn’t higher on the list. I would’ve ranked him #1 or #2

by Schulz on Nov 7, 2008 3:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Why Pedroia for MVP pisses some people off...

Just joined, this is my first post…

From talking to (non-Boston) people about Pedroia’s candidacy this year for MVP, its pretty clear that a lot of avid baseball fans hate the fact that Dusty could (and should) win this award. I think this is why: Everyone that has been paying attention to the the stathead vs. baseball purist battle of the last few years knows that statheads love showing the purists why they’re wrong. The simple fact that the purists love Pedroia, makes the statheads kinda hate him. Even though Pedroia was one of the best players in the league this year, they still can’t stand that Joe Morgan loved him too. The fact that everyone hates Boston-Sports these days doesn’t help either.

Now, the reasons the writers will vote for Pedroia are probably stupid: “he hustles, he gets his uniform dirty, he’s short, he swings hard, he’s a leader, he knows how to play the game.” Nevertheless, it looks like they are going to stumble themselves into the right choice.

On another note, is anyone else a little uncomfortable with the fact that Dustin mightwin, while Papi and Manny never won. I mean those guys were/are much better players than Pedroia. Just a down year for the award I guess.

by BTLove on Nov 7, 2008 4:36 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Welcome to OTM.

I think you’re right on the stat-head vs. purists divide, and how it relates to Pedroia. Interestingly, the dynamic was reversed when he first came up (September 06 and early 07) and was hacking away, generally making poor contact. At that point, stat lovers defended him, citing his minor league stats and history of success at every level; purists attacked him for his huge swing. Some people even wanted Cora to replace him.

I’m a little uncomfortable with Pedroia’s candidacy. Ortiz’s 2006 was a historic season, probably the best ever by a DH (I haven’t checked the #s), but he lost out to Morneau, who had way fewer HR, and a lower OBP.

"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.

by 0157H7 on Nov 7, 2008 4:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Awards

Ortiz didn’t win that year because the Sox really faded and ended up finishing third in the division. I remember being surprised that Jeter didn’t bring it in that year. He actually had the numbers to support it and they didn’t give it to their favorite son. I mean, he dove into the stands!

by BTLove on Nov 7, 2008 5:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Jeter had good numbers.

Ortiz had 40 more HR though. That should count for something.

The BBWAA had no problem awarding MVPs to A-Rod when the Rangers sucked. As far as I’m concerned, if one player is head and shoulders above the rest of the league (as A-Rod and Ortiz were) then he should be MVP. In closer situations, you give the award to playoff contenders.

"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.

by 0157H7 on Nov 7, 2008 5:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Don't get me wrong, I love Ortiz, but...

there is validity in the argument that A-Rod was playing a premium position, while Ortiz doesn’t play any position. However, when A-Rod won it he shouldn’t have. Unfortunately, the Boston players all split the vote with Ortiz, Manny, and Nomar coming in 5, 6 and 7, (and Billy Mueller at 12th) all with at least one first place vote. That year, Manny should have won it.

The award is bizarre. There is no guidance from the league to the voters as to what what makes someone “valuable” on a baseball team. The voters tend to only look at players whose teams make the playoffs, implying that there is no “value” in helping a shit team win a few extra games. Or sometimes, saying that a player who brings a team from mediocrity to playoff contention ought to be disregarded simply because his team fell a few games short (or was simply in a tougher division).

Most years I’m fine with the selection, in that either multiple players are good candidates, or that none are particularly good candidates, so I just don’t care. But the one year that still gets my goat was 1999, when Pedro did not win after pitching maybe the best year ever for a pitcher, at the height of the steroid era. His ERA+ was 243! All because some asinine NY writer left him off his top 10, claiming that he didn’t believe a pitcher should ever win it even though the same writer had put pitchers on his ballot before. AHHHHH

by BTLove on Nov 7, 2008 5:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

This is really funny.

Not because I disagree, but because Pedroia was originally a stathead favorite. The scouts never like his as a prospect, but his translated numbers were always awesome. Scouts didn’t think he could maintain the high average or power when he hit the majors. Oops.

And statheads aren’t really against him. If forced to pick a player from a playoff team, most would probably pick Pedroia, with Youk a close second. It’s just that Sizemore was so much better than the rest of the pack.

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Nov 7, 2008 8:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

May I ask you just how was Sizemore 'much better than the rest of the pack'?

His numbers were better than Pedroia’s, but not by much.

Mother---- him and John Wayne!

by MerryGoByeBye on Nov 7, 2008 9:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

His ballpark isn't as hitter-friendly.

That’s most of it, with a run or two for the 20 extra PAs, and a couple runs for the extra SBs at a high rate.

I’ve got them almost exactly even defensively.

About a 1.5 WAR difference.

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Nov 7, 2008 9:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Forgot about the ballpark factor

My bad. And, like I said, the homer in me wants Pedroia winning the award. But I’d be more than okay with Sizemore getting it. If K-Rod wins it, like MLB.com says he could, I might as well kill someone. :)

Mother---- him and John Wayne!

by MerryGoByeBye on Nov 7, 2008 10:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Three voters left Mauer off their ballots entirely...

And just so people don’t think I’m anti-Pedroia, I’d probably put him second in the AL behind Sizemore. But he’s barely ahead of guys like ARod, Mauer, Roberts, and Youk.

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Nov 7, 2008 9:59 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

That's the bright side of not having Pujols in the AL

Any of these guys could win and it would be okay. In the NL it just has to be Albert.

Mother---- him and John Wayne!

by MerryGoByeBye on Nov 7, 2008 10:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Its just a wierd year for the MVP

rarely are guys who don’t put up the big counting stats even considered. There are a bunch this year with Mauer, Pedroia and Sizemore. Mauer and Pedroia only drove in eighty-something runs, and Sizemore had 90. Maybe this is a sign that the writers are looking past that stuff. Then again, they haven’t awarded the thing yet, so we’ll see.

by BTLove on Nov 7, 2008 10:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs