White Sox as trading partner?

by Schulz on Nov 5, 2008 2:53 PM EST

While, MLBtraderumors is not always the most reliable source, they do pose an interesting possibility regarding the white sox. Here's the link:

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/11/white-sox-shopp.html

Basically, they're looking to trade Javier Vasquez and Nick Swisher. Here's their three-year averages:

Swisher: 531 AB, .245/.362/.452, 27HR, 81 RBI

Vazquez: 32 GS, 13-12, 4.39 ERA, 1.25 WHIP, 199K, 56BB

Neither of those stat sets look particularly amazing, and they both had poor years in 2008, meaning the White Sox will be selling low. I don't see Swisher fitting in to our plans unless its as a utility OF/1B (Think Hinske, Kotsay, etc.). If that is the case, I have no problem with him filling that roll. Vazquez is a less-than-ideal option as our 4th/5th starter, but I think he could do the job through the first half of the season until Bowden or Buccholz is ready to fill in.

The article says that the White Sox are in need of a CF and 2B (defensively), and a leadoff hitter and/or speed in their lineup (offensively).

Because of all this, it seems like we could make a good deal. Crisp and Lugo could both fill the "leadoff man with speed" roll. A combination of Crisp and Lugo could fill those defensive holes (Lugo moves to 2B, where he has some experience). They would really only need one of those two on offense, but having both certainly wouldn't hinder their need for speed.

Would a Crisp-Lugo for Vazquez-Swisher deal be fair?

Would one team need to add prospects?

The Chi-Sox could use Crisp, but will they take Lugo?

Do we want Vazquez and/or Swisher at all?

Thoughts?

0 recs | Comment 29 comments

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Coco for Swisher, straight up

Mother---- him and John Wayne!

by MerryGoByeBye on Nov 5, 2008 2:56 PM EST 0 recs

That would make the Cubs jump off a building.

Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 5, 2008 8:55 PM EST up 0 recs

I would love to get Swisher.

He would be a versatile OF and 1B/DH option. I am convinced he will bounce back in 2009. I would be happy to see Ellsbury and some bits and pieces go over.

I really don’t know where the balance of the trade lies, Of course we could quite happily swallow Vasquez’s salary, though I think he’s a large piece of toast at this stage.

"no1 has time to read your long comments, are you writing a book?"

by britsoxfan on Nov 5, 2008 3:05 PM EST 0 recs

I agree

about Vazquez, but it might be worth taking him on to get Lugo out of here.

by Schulz on Nov 5, 2008 3:15 PM EST up 0 recs

I wouldn’t trade Ellsbury for Swish.

OverTheMonster.com

by Randy Booth on Nov 6, 2008 10:13 AM EST up 0 recs

But he's a better player, isn't he?

More versatile, more power. The slash numbers from last year don’t make a persuasive case, but I’d take Swisher any day.

"no1 has time to read your long comments, are you writing a book?"

by britsoxfan on Nov 6, 2008 10:28 AM EST up 0 recs

Nor do the VORPs compare favourably

but I’m a Swisher advocate, as I say, for his versatility, and my belief that 2008 was a bump in the road. Ellsbury is still being overrated in some quarters.

"no1 has time to read your long comments, are you writing a book?"

by britsoxfan on Nov 6, 2008 10:38 AM EST up 0 recs

No match on Lugo - Swisher

Thus sayeth Alex Speier of WEEI, and thus it is written.

"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.

by 0157H7 on Nov 6, 2008 12:45 AM EST 0 recs

And to follow up

Nick Cafardo seconds this. Other gems from that article – Sox not in the running for Burnett or Sabathia, and Epstein is pursuing a catcher in trade, targeting the Rangers.

"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.

by 0157H7 on Nov 6, 2008 11:04 AM EST up 0 recs

Tigers

Detroit might match up as well in a trade for Lugo. According to Scott Miller of CBS sports,

The Boston Red Sox are among the clubs who have done some background work on Detroit left-hander Dontrelle Willis, … a Willis-for-Julio Lugo swap would help each club unload a bad contract and help fill a need. Willis is due $22 million over the next two seasons; Lugo is owed $18 million over the next two seasons, plus he has a $9 million option for 2011…

I’d worry about Willis in our rotation, but worst case scenario, he struggles and we start Buccholz or one of the others in stead. At least we dump Lugo, who is basically worthless to us at this point.

by Schulz on Nov 7, 2008 3:45 PM EST 0 recs

Willis

Dontrelle was one of the worst pitchers in baseball for the few innings he pitched in 2008. ERA+ at 47 in 7 starts for only 24 innings. In 2007 he was also well below average (83ERA+ and WHIP 1.6) I doubt the Sox could count on him for anything other than a mop-up man out of the pen. Lugo as a competent fielder, even on the bench, is most likely more valuable.

by BTLove on Nov 7, 2008 4:43 PM EST up 0 recs

I agree.

And I loathe Lugo.

"no1 has time to read your long comments, are you writing a book?"

by britsoxfan on Nov 7, 2008 5:07 PM EST up 0 recs

Agreed

Willis sucks. But he is probably a better hitter than Alex Cora.

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Nov 7, 2008 5:48 PM EST up 0 recs

Has Willis been hurt?

Any other explanation for his regression? Maybe we could trade for him, put him under the knife, and get a return to form in 2010?

I don’t think I’ve ever seen anywhere fall from grace quicker than Willis, absent injury. Maybe Zito. Maybe.

Manny ain't the only bad man.

by tommy.otm on Nov 7, 2008 5:54 PM EST up 0 recs

He had knee issues this past year.

The leg kick “form” probably didn’t help.

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 8, 2008 11:34 AM EST up 0 recs

Noone knows

Its unclear what happened to Dontrelle. I’ve heard that he gained some weight, his body changed and that messed with his mechanics.

Per BaseballReference, his #2 similar pitcher through age 26 was our old friend Steve Avery. Actually a really accurate comparison. (The number 5 was Billerica’s Tom Glavine, except Glavine was getting better).

by BTLove on Nov 7, 2008 6:16 PM EST 0 recs

D-Train

Willis had a very unusual delivery that nobody could figure out for a year or two while he was in Florida. However, that didn’t last very long. Once teams figured out his mechanics, he became very predictable and they jumped all over him. His 22 win season was an anomaly. He’ll never be what he once was, but is it worth giving him a shot as a long reliever? Lugo obviously holds more value, so the Tigers would have to give us a prospect (because they’re trying to cut payroll, not eat Dontrell’s contract and take on Lugo’s).

by Schulz on Nov 7, 2008 9:17 PM EST up 0 recs

No on Dontrelle

I don’t think we should take Dontrelle under any circumstance where we would expect any major league contribution. (i.e. only take him if we can get something else in return that would be worth eating $20mil)

Javier Vazquez, on the other hand, is valuable. He is right around league average. Pitches a lot of innings. Kind of a Paul Byrd/Wakefield type guy. Hopefully we would never have to start him in the playoffs, but as a fifth starter in the regular season, hes fine. The problem comes when you do get to the playoffs and you need that fourth starter and no one’s home. I guess we just hope Clay can outpitch Wake and whomever else you throw onto the back end of the rotation.

by BTLove on Nov 7, 2008 10:32 PM EST up 0 recs

Agree

on both Dontrelle and Javier…

Manny ain't the only bad man.

by tommy.otm on Nov 8, 2008 12:50 AM EST up 0 recs

+1

J. Vazquez > D. Willis any day of the week. I would probably trade Lugo for Willis and a mid-high level prospect though. However, I’d much rather do a Crisp-for-Vazquez deal. Would the white sox ask for more than coco? Crisp’s contract is much more agreeable (1 more year, $5.75MM + $8MM option year, compared to 2 more years, $23MM)

IMO, Coco is a more valuable player when you consider his contract. Idk if the White Sox would see it that way.

by Schulz on Nov 8, 2008 2:33 PM EST up 0 recs

I'd rather hang onto Coco

at least until we find another legit, semi-cheap 4th outfielder. I’m not sure Nick Swisher is that guy. I kinda doubt he would embrace the non-starting role at this point in his career, he is also owed a lot more money than Coco. (3yrs at $21mil)

Lugo, on the other hand is entirely replaceable.

by BTLove on Nov 8, 2008 2:59 PM EST up 0 recs

I agree with your points on Swisher

And Coco’s trade value most likely is at it’s peak. I say sell him high, and pick up Rhode Island’s finest in Rocco Baldelli from the FA market. He said he would like playing for his home team and he isn’t expecting to be a starting outfielder. I would imagine we could get him relatively cheap (around 1-2 million) and he could fill in for Ortiz at the DH role occasionally.

by A2004LoveAffair on Nov 11, 2008 12:01 PM EST up 0 recs

How about if we sign Tex

Lowell and Coco for Javier and Swisher.

Manny ain't the only bad man.

by tommy.otm on Nov 8, 2008 4:29 PM EST 0 recs

Hmm

That’s a possibility. The White Sox do need a third baseman (and a CF as we already said).

I think that would favor the White Sox more than us, but it’s ok if we sign Tex. Then its just a deal where we trade spare parts (backup 3B and CF) for more necessary pieces (4th OF, #4/5 SP). I think the White Sox would be crazy not to take that deal.

The only problem I have with this scenario is the locker room/clubhouse issues it might cause. For one thing, Swisher would probably be unhappy in his #4 OF / #2 1B role. Also, trading Lowell doesn’t look make our organization look good from the players’ point of view. Mike signs a home-team extension at a discount and we repay him by trading him after one injury-plagued season? I could see it if the guy was a jerk, or if he never did anything for us, but Lowell is a class-act stand-up guy who was our best player in 2007 (IMO). Trading him kills any sense of loyalty the Sox had. On paper however, your scenario makes us look very good.

by Schulz on Nov 8, 2008 5:52 PM EST up 0 recs

Ageed

But we basically did the same thing to Bronson on a smaller scale.

by matzushocka45 on Nov 10, 2008 8:27 PM EST up 0 recs

Wow

I completely forgot about that trade. What are Arroyo and Willy Mo doing now? Seemed like an ok deal at the time, then it looked awful, now it’s ok again.

But yes, it’s a similar situation, but this year’s deal would have far greater repercussions.

by Schulz on Nov 11, 2008 11:59 AM EST up 0 recs

The MFY stole Swisher

Here’s the link from MLB.com
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081113&content_id=3678194&vkey=hotstove2008&fext=.jsp

Guess that ruins that idea. Swisher seems like the ideal 4th OF / backup 1B. I guess the Yankees agreed with me.

by Schulz on Nov 13, 2008 5:04 PM EST 0 recs

Steal is right.

What an odd deal, unless he is injured or a crack addict on the quiet. Just dross from the minor leagues too.

The Williams/Guillen axis of crap strikes again.

"no1 has time to read your long comments, are you writing a book?"

by britsoxfan on Nov 13, 2008 5:22 PM EST up 0 recs

Swisher is just a big name, not a big talent

Swisher made a name for himself after a breakout in Oakland at a relative young age. However, if you look at those 2 seasons in Oakland, he hit 35 HR’s in 06, then 22 in 07. His avg. in 06 was just .254 and in 06 (when his power went down) he hit just .262

Last year, he hit .219 with 24 HR’s.

Some people are up in arms thinking the Yankees made out great on this deal, but Swisher/Betemit are pretty close to identical players (IMO), just one has a bigger name recognition.

If/When Swisher hits 30 HR’s next season for the Yanks, I am pretty sure it will come with a .240 batting avg and .350ish OBP.

So basically, they got a younger,cheaper version of Giambi who is not as good a hitter nor as solid at OBP.

Good for them, they saved a few bucks, but I am pretty confident Swisher is in their plans as the starting 1B.

by kangarooboxer on Nov 14, 2008 8:32 AM EST 0 recs