How Much is Mark Teixeira Worth?
With speculation that the Red Sox may end up breaking the bank for Mark Teixeira, it's time we discussed how valuable he really is.
Dave Cameron goes into this subject on Fangraphs.com. Estimating that Tex is a worth an additional five wins above a replacement-level player, he comes up with the following values:
If Teixeira is a +5 win player, and we use the $5.5 million per win projection for off-season spending, that gives us a $27.5 million figure for 2009. Again, we’ll factor in a 10% discount off of his current value for the safety of a long term deal, and that gives us something like $24.5 million for Teixeira. Teams are more comfortable giving longer deals to hitters than pitchers, so let’s pencil him in for a 7 year, $171 million contract.
Pretty incredible, huh? How many of us would have valued Tex so highly?
I have some issues with these figures. First, Cameron bases the offensive value of Tex (+3 wins) on the last two years. Why is that significant? Well...
OPS+
2003: 102
2004: 131
2005: 144
2006: 126
2007: 150
2008: 151
Over the last two years Tex has put up the best overall offensive numbers of his career. Ages 27-28 is when most players start to peak, and Tex is now 28. It's not wholly unreasonable to project Tex based on his age 27 and 28 seasons, but we should keep in mind that he's had less spectacular seasons as recently as two years ago.
Another issue is that Cameron does not plan for any age-related decline in Tex's performance. Most players begin to decline offensively after age 32. A 7-year deal would pay Tex to age 35. It's a little optimistic, to say the least, to expect Tex to 1) hit as well as he has in his career years, and 2) to hit that well over seven years.
Since we're talking Manny money here (>$20 million per year), how does Tex compare with Manny at age 28? Manny also had career years at age 27 and 28 (OPS+ of 173 and 186, respectively), but he had been much more consistent, prior to that. His first season with more than 90 games (1994, age 22), he had a 125 OPS+. Thereafter he had four years of 144-147 OPS+.
For my money, Tex is a much more comparable hitter to Jason Bay. Their career OPS+s are very close - Tex is 134, Bay 131. Manny is a career 155 OPS+ hitter.
Turning to defense, no one would dispute that Tex plays a mean first base. However, so does Kevin Youkilis. According to the Fielding Bible's Plus/Minus, Youk edges Tex +25 to +22 over the past three years (2006-2008). Teixeira's defense is not worth as much to the Red Sox, who can keep Youk at first, as it is to the Yankees or Angels, both of whom have holes at the position.
I'd revise Teixeira's value downward, especially for the Red Sox. Since we receive no marginal gain in defense (and might even suffer by replacing Lowell with Youk), a fairer value for our team might be +3 wins, or $16.5 million a year. I'd throw some money on top for inflation, and offer a competitive rate of $18 million a year.
All this said, the best part about signing Tex would be hurting the Yankees and the Yankees West (LAA of A). New York faces the long-term prospect of a declining offense, as their stars age and their young players fail to hit (see "AAA" Melky and "No-Walk" Cano). Tex could help them, although he'd block Posada / A-Rod / Jeter from moving to first. The Angels, meanwhile, would have given up the promising Casey Kotchman for nothing more than a Red Sox draft pick. Moreover, they'd still be down a power hitter. In the end, Theo may decide that kneecapping our playoff competition might be worth overpaying for Teixeira.
So, to the big question: What do YOU think Teixeira is worth? Answer the poll, and leave your thoughts in the comments below.
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Comments
$22-25
In terms of “absolute value,” probably closer to $18. But when you factor in keeping him from the Yanks or the Angels, his value to the Sox increases significantly. They need him a lot more than we do. He makes them a playoff team, he makes us a perrenial favorite.
Manny ain't the only bad man.
by tommy.otm on Nov 20, 2008 2:15 PM EST 0 recs
Teixeira will command $22-25 M annually, I bet.
"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.
by SoxDevil on
Nov 21, 2008 12:49 PM EST
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The thing about Tex is that he's a 1bman
The easiest position to play at. He plays it at a very high level, though.
Mother---- him and John Wayne!
by MerryGoByeBye on Nov 20, 2008 3:16 PM EST 0 recs
+1
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on
Nov 20, 2008 3:42 PM EST
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He is worth more to the Angels
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Nov 20, 2008 3:42 PM EST 0 recs
Yes
That is why I think they will sign him in the end. However, if they feel like they don’t have the money (they do), then I think the Sox have a better chance than the Yankees at signing him, largely due to the fact the the MFY are gonna overspend of pitching. If LAA get Tex, and NYY get CC + one of Lowe/Burnett. What will the Sox do? Sign the pitcher the Yankees didn’t get? Sign anybody at all?
by Schulz on
Nov 20, 2008 3:50 PM EST
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Ben Sheets and Rocco
Along with a trade for one of Texas’ catchers. Ben Sheets can get his 2 year contract of $14-$16 Mil, and Rocco has already stated he would like to play in Boston, and that he isn’t expecting a starting role. He would give us that right handed at bat/4th outfielder, and he still has enough pop to give Ortiz a few nights off by filling in at DH.
by A2004LoveAffair on
Nov 21, 2008 9:35 AM EST
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Anybody else hate the fact
that baseball has come down to this? The Sox/Yankees only interested in players to either drive up the asking price and/or keeping a certain player away from the other.
Tex would be a great addition to any team, but the Sox do not need him.
Man do I hate Longhorn fans, well except for the ones that actually went there.
by mystman995 on Nov 20, 2008 3:51 PM EST 0 recs
My thoughts.
Ecoli is smart.
"Are you a real doctor, or a doctor like Dr. Pepper is a doctor?"
by Allen Chace on Nov 20, 2008 7:01 PM EST 2 recs
'Nuff said.
And Rec’d.
Well, I'll appreciate for you to keep my zingers outta your mouth!
by BoSox415 on
Nov 21, 2008 5:01 PM EST
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I actually thought...
about this the other night…I thought he would get or be looking for $24/yr….
~ ROLL TIDE ~
GO SOX!!
by Bama Sox on Nov 20, 2008 9:05 PM EST 0 recs
More stuff
The Executive Editor of Rotoworld thinks that Tex will get 6 years, $132 million.
"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.
by 0157H7 on Nov 21, 2008 1:31 AM EST 0 recs
Sounds like what he’s likely to get, though I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s more like 6/$140.
"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.
by SoxDevil on
Nov 21, 2008 12:51 PM EST
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Your Digging Your Own Grave
Your Digging Your Own Grave
http://www.fanzak.com/fzrants/MLB__Your_Digging_Your_Own_Grave
by Fanzak on Nov 21, 2008 1:37 PM EST 0 recs
The funny thing is
Pro sports players probably take more flak than executives .
At least athletes are being paid relative to their performance. Plenty of CEOs get big bucks regardless of the state of their company. Some get multi-million dollar severance packages. For example, Robert Nardelli received $210 million in severance from Home Depot. Compared to such excess, $20 million for Teixeira doesn’t seem so bad, at least to me.
"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.
by 0157H7 on
Nov 21, 2008 2:58 PM EST
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Source
See here.
"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.
by 0157H7 on
Nov 21, 2008 2:58 PM EST
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What corporate America teaches us
A golden parachute beats a golden thong any day.
"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.
by SoxDevil on
Nov 21, 2008 3:07 PM EST
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Don't forget
the 6,000 golden shower curtain.
"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.
by 0157H7 on
Nov 21, 2008 4:25 PM EST
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* $6,000
"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.
by 0157H7 on
Nov 21, 2008 4:25 PM EST
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Athletes get paid based on prior performance. With some exceptions, there are not a lot of incentive based contracts out there for athletes. CEO’s its kinda the same thing. When you sign on to run Home Depot, you negotiate a contract that includes a ridiculous severance package. Home Depot could have signed a different person for less money if they had wanted. My guess is that Robert Nardelli had success at previous jobs. In this way the circumstances are quite similar. The real issue is whether or not the board of any company (or baseball team) should be giving out these kinda of contracts; whether or not any human being is worth $210Mil.
by BTLove on
Nov 21, 2008 6:29 PM EST
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One difference is
Athletes don’t set one another’s salaries, while executives typically do, as CEOs often serve on the boards of multiple companies. As I understand it, most execs approve generous compensation packages and salaries because they want to benefit from such perks themselves in the future. No one wants to stand up and stop the gravy train, lest it come back to bite him.
"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.
by 0157H7 on
Nov 21, 2008 6:53 PM EST
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True. This is the big market failure. Also, the board members make like 100K to sit on these boards and meet a few times a year. Get yourself on a few boards and you’re set. No one wants to ruin that either.
by BTLove on
Nov 21, 2008 7:12 PM EST
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This is where I start having issues.
No regulations vs. facist-like regulations.
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on
Nov 21, 2008 5:30 PM EST
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About age-regression
The fact that we have Youkilis doesnt change anything from Tex’s standpoint.
But anyway, what i wanted to say was that your argument about age-regression is wrong in the sense that while it is true that we cannot project him to hit at this pace for the entirety of the contract, that diminished performance cancels out with the inflation for marginal wins on the free-agent market
by gemf89 on Nov 22, 2008 12:35 AM EST 0 recs
We're heading into the worst global recession since the 1930s.
How much inflation are you expecting, exactly? Also, there’s no guarantee that Tex doesn’t decline faster than the value of his marginal wins rise. Todd Helton, for example, had greatly diminished power as early as age 31.
As for Youkilis, it should affect the front office’s valuation of Tex. Typically they set a value for a player and stick to it. Tex isn’t worth as much to the Red Sox, especially in the short term, as he is to a team that needs a good first baseman, like the Angels. The presence of Lowell and Youk, and the nearness of Lars Anderson, should keep Theo from getting into a serious bidding war and giving up more than Tex deserves.
"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.
by 0157H7 on
Nov 22, 2008 9:46 AM EST
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+1
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on
Nov 22, 2008 10:09 AM EST
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Helton
Right around the time Helton’s power vanished, Colorado began using the humidor and MLB began more stringent testing.
I think you’re undervaluing Tex. Younger than Youk, more power, better glove, will probably hit a ton in Fenway. Young middle of the order bats hit the open market very infrequently. The last three under thirty guys I can think of are Vlad, Arod and Manny. And they all got paid big time.
Manny ain't the only bad man.
by tommy.otm on
Nov 22, 2008 10:11 AM EST
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Agreed
While I don’t think the Sox need Tex, let’s not deny that he’s an amazing player and the best FA right now. The team that signs him is likely getting better.
Mother---- him and John Wayne!
by MerryGoByeBye on
Nov 22, 2008 11:59 AM EST
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About Recession
Well, i am not an economist so i wont even try to predict the inflation on the free agent market.
But look at recent history, as recently as 2 years ago, burnett’s and meche’s contracts were mocked by everybody around baseball. Right now, those contracts are relative bargains.
Obvioulsy he could regress a lot more than expected, but that could be said about anybody and it’s not something you can consider too much when negotiating the contract. Anyway, i think Tex deserves whatever he gets and the Sox should make every possible effort to sign him…. You have to consider that our team has a guy at DH and another at 3rd that are not getting any younger and are big injury risks. We cant expect Youk and Pedroia to do what they did this year, so the offense is gonna need a boost.
I would give him a contract for 7 years and 160 mil without a doubt. The comparison with Manny is off-base becuase that was 8 years ago so you shouldnt compare the 2 situations.
by gemf89 on
Nov 22, 2008 4:58 PM EST
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Clearly his market value is going to be 20+ million. Hes a good player, makes almost any team better, but i wouldnt want to be the team that signs him for 6 years…it would be a huuge contract and i doubt hes going to be the same player in 3 years.
by spinz on Nov 23, 2008 3:10 PM EST 0 recs
















