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Tony Mazz: Sox will break the bank for Mark Teixeira

A bold prediction for my new favorite Globe writer, Tony Massarotti:

Here's a prediction: By the time this is over, win or lose, the Red Sox effectively will have made Mark Teixeira the largest contract offer in the history of your storied franchise.

Preposterous, you say? Clearly, you have not been paying attention. Since the Red Sox changed ownership, management, and philosophies early in 2002, the new owners and operators of the Red Sox have stopped at virtually nothing to acquire those things they have coveted most. When the best of the rest were bidding $35 million-$40 million to acquire the rights to Daisuke Matsuzaka, the Red Sox bid $51.11 million. When the rest of the world wondered why J.D. Drew opted out of his contract in Los Angeles, the Red Sox dropped $70 million in Drew's lap. And knowing what we know now, nothing might have been more aggressive than the $36 million the Sox paid for Julio Lugo.

The point is this:

When the Sox want something enough, they make sure they get it.

[...]

In the case of Teixeira, the parameters have been in place for quite some time. Roughly 18 months ago, before being dealt by the Texas Rangers, Teixeira turned down an eight-year, $144 million offer that translated into $18 million per season. At the time, Teixeira was still a season and a half short of free agency. Teixeira's resume has only grown since then, which likely places Teixeira's current value between $20-$25 million per season over the next six to eight years at a minimum.

Know what that means? It means that in order to sign him, someone must pay $150-$200 million over at least the next six or eight seasons. On the shorter end of that, Teixeira easily will eclipse the annual $20 million salary earned by Ramirez during his productive and somewhat tumultuous time in Boston. On the longer end, Teixeira could end up with a package approaching $200 million, $40 million more than the $160 million deal Ramirez acquired during the winter of 2000-01.

I can't even imagine what the Red Sox lineup would look like with Teixeira anchoring the middle. Undoubtedly, the Sox would have a player capable of hitting in the No. 3 spot forced to hit No. 7 -- Jason Bay? Kevin Youkilis? JD Drew? Any one of those guys could hit No. 3 for most teams...

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Comments

Display:

Dammit Randy! I was just about to post this.

Oh well, I have another link.

Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 19, 2008 2:40 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

See new FanShot for more.

/self whoring

Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 19, 2008 2:44 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't put much stock in anything Mazz writes

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Nov 19, 2008 2:55 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Word

Mother---- him and John Wayne!

by MerryGoByeBye on Nov 19, 2008 8:11 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Still

it must be awesome to just have to make up shit about baseball for a (comfortable) living…

Rock me, sexy Jesus...

by nuthinboutnuthin on Nov 19, 2008 9:17 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Totally

I’m jealous.

Manny ain't the only bad man.

by tommy.otm on Nov 19, 2008 9:26 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Me too.

Breaking news: Godzilla (LHP) signs with A’s, sets up season-long battle with Ichiro.

Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 19, 2008 9:27 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Really?

What this about Godzilla’s recording contract then?

"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.

by 0157H7 on Nov 20, 2008 12:22 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Baseball players have always been great performers.

Willie Mays Hayes was an actor in his second season.

Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 20, 2008 6:34 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Not my money

I’ll take it.

But like Drugs, I take Mazz with a grain of salt.

Manny ain't the only bad man.

by tommy.otm on Nov 19, 2008 3:33 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Tickets, visiting Sox's website, buying apparel, etc.

We contribute.

Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 19, 2008 5:47 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I love the idea of signing Tex. My only concern is if we do that, can the Sox afford to sign guys long term like Papelbon, Youk, Bay, Pedroia, Beckett, Lester in the coming years as well?

by matzushocka45 on Nov 19, 2008 6:00 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hahahaha

You act like we don’t have money.

Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 19, 2008 6:02 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

We do have $$$, no doubt. BUT, the guys we have are going to command top dollar contracts, Pedroia, Youk and Papelbon are comfortable going year to year, and thats going to add up. I guess I should factor Drew, Papi, Lugo and whatever part we eat of Lowell’s deal coming off the books as well though. I dunno, we shall see I guess.

by matzushocka45 on Nov 19, 2008 6:05 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Drew has 3 more years at $14 mil each.

And, an interesting tid-bit from Cot’s:

Boston may opt out of either of final 2 seasons if Drew:
    spends 35 days on the disabled list in either 2009 or 2010 with injury related to pre-existing right shoulder condition, OR
    finishes 2009 or 2010 season on the disabled list and cannot play outfield the following season

Lugo will not make it through the offseason.

Papi has 2 more years at $12.5mil each, w/ an option for 2011 at $12.5mil. He just turned 33 yesterday, so he’d be 36 at the end of 2011, most likely on the decline. At that point, Lars will be in the MLB and will most likely take over the DH spot, or another spot and move another player to DH.

Lowell won’t cost too much to get trade if we send him to a team that needs a 3B.

Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 19, 2008 6:15 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Good finds….I stand corrected. Although, I do not see Drew spending time on the DL due to the shoulder knowing the Sox can opt out.

by matzushocka45 on Nov 19, 2008 6:21 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So, if his entire shoulder labrum collapses, he'll hide it?

Not many shoulder injuries can be hidden in baseball.

Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 19, 2008 6:49 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I could see him playing through it. I think he played through a lot in 2007.

by matzushocka45 on Nov 19, 2008 6:51 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He'd have a worse arm than Coco and Ells.

Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 19, 2008 7:51 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Its a very specific opt-out clause

I don’t think his shoulder was bothering him this year, so maybe that injury healed well enough and we can all just get ready for the next one.

by BTLove on Nov 19, 2008 7:24 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hence the second option.

If he gets injured late enough in the season, or his back gets worse, he wouldn’t be able to play OF for part of or all of 2010. That might get us the opt-out for the last two seasons.

Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 19, 2008 7:53 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Would we really want to?

He was pretty much our best player last year outside of Pedroia and Lester

by Gnick on Nov 19, 2008 10:16 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If he can't stay healthy for more than 100 games in a row.

Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 20, 2008 6:35 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Mussina retired.

See new FanShot for link.

Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 19, 2008 6:00 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hmm... SoxProspects.com doesn't see Tex as a Sox next year.

http://www.soxprospects.com/2009.htm

But, they do see us signing Burnett, trading Lugo for Willis, resigning Tek, and somehow acquiring Salty (possibly involving Kottaras.

Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 19, 2008 6:18 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Kottaras.)

Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 19, 2008 6:18 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Bowden

Bowden’s not on that roster to thats how I think we’d be getting Salty.

by Gnick on Nov 19, 2008 10:21 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Nevermind

There he is in the AAA rotation…my bad.

by Gnick on Nov 19, 2008 10:23 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'd love this

We would be unstoppable. Send off Bowden for Teagarden and take what you can get for Lowell, eating half his salary, sign Derek Lowe, and we can’t be touched.

1. Jacoby Ellsbury CF
2. Dustin Pedroia 2B
3. David Ortiz DH
4. Mark Teixeira 1B
5. Kevin Youkillis 3B
6. JD Drew RF
7. Jason Bay LF
8. Jed Lowrie SS
9. Taylor Teagarden

SP: Jon Lester
SP: Josh Beckett
SP: Daisuke Matsuzaka
SP: Derek Lowe
SP: Tim Wakefield

RP: Manny Delcarmen
RP: Hideki Okajima
RP: Justin Masterson
RP: Ramon Ramirez
RP: Javier Lopez
RP: Daniel Bard
RP: Jonathan Papelbon

And we could it for $130M.

by Charger567 on Nov 19, 2008 6:25 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

There is no way I can see the Sox signing Tex and one of Lowe/Burnett; love to see it but doubt it could happen.

by matzushocka45 on Nov 19, 2008 6:28 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

There are some other pitching options available.

From MLBTR:
Kris Benson (33)
A.J. Burnett (32) – Type A
Paul Byrd (38) – Type B
Roger Clemens (46)
Matt Clement (33)
Bartolo Colon (36)
Shawn Estes (36)
Josh Fogg (32)
Freddy Garcia (33)
Jon Garland (29) – Type B
Tom Glavine (43)
Mike Hampton (36)
Mark Hendrickson (35)
Livan Hernandez (34)
Orlando Hernandez (43)
Jason Jennings (30)
Randy Johnson (45) – Type B
Kenshin Kawakami (34) – prefers the Sox
Jon Lieber (39)
Braden Looper (34) – Type B
Rodrigo Lopez (33) – club option for ’09
Derek Lowe (36) – Type A
Greg Maddux (43) – Type B
Pedro Martinez (37)
Jamie Moyer (46) – Type A
Mark Mulder (31)
John Parrish (31)
Carl Pavano (33)
Brad Penny (31) – Type B
Odalis Perez (32)
Oliver Perez (27) – Type A
Andy Pettitte (37) – Type A
Sidney Ponson (32)
Mark Prior (27)
Kenny Rogers (44)
Glendon Rusch (34)
C.C. Sabathia (28) – Type A
Curt Schilling (42)
Ben Sheets (30) – Type A
John Smoltz (42) – Type B
Koji Uehara (34)
Kip Wells (32)
Randy Wolf (32) – Type B

Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 19, 2008 6:57 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

All FA's.

Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 19, 2008 6:58 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Analysts...

ive read compare Kenshin Kawakami to Hiroki Kuroda.

They have similar stats, but Kawakami is more of a strikeout pitcher who relies on his curveball to keep batters from timing his cutter and fastball.

To me the only issue with FA pitchers is years on the contract. If D. Lowe wants 16 million a year, fine but he only gets 3 years. Burnett claims he will only listen to 5 year deals. I would rather offer Sheets a 2 year deal and pray for no injuries. We really only need him for 15-20 starts and the playoffs, having a store of young arms that want a shot in the bigs.

If everyone was healthy who would you guys want to pitch in the playoffs? Sheets, Burnett or Lowe?

To me they are all pretty much the same as for quality.

by SoxAcumen on Nov 19, 2008 8:05 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Sheets can be a shut down pitcher when healthy.

Burnett is an American Dice-K, with a chronic injury bug.
Lowe seems like more of a tempo guy, controlling games rather than dominating.

All three seem like they will have similar seasons by James and Marcel predictions:
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=512&position=P
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=710&position=P
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=199&position=P

Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 19, 2008 8:15 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Oh, and Boras is looking for the same salary that Zito got for Lowe. Roughly $18mil per.

Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 19, 2008 8:51 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Is it me?

Or is mentioning “Zito-like” when marketing your pitcher a bad idea in any context.

Rock me, sexy Jesus...

by nuthinboutnuthin on Nov 19, 2008 9:20 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Just you.

Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 19, 2008 9:26 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I agree

Any mention of Zito inspires thoughts of an albatross contract for a pitcher that sucks.

by Schulz on Nov 19, 2008 10:23 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Lowe is not worth that money..

I always felt letting go Lowe after 2004 was a bad move on Theo’s part. He seemed so enamored with Clement, and Lowe’s antics were a bit too much, but Lowe had his moments of sheer brilliance on the mound…

Lowe’s performance with the Dodgers showed he is not worth $18 million. Three year for $9 million..

The Yankees should be really hesitant in signing Lowe, because he will get crucified by the Yankee fans and the NY media, who demand no hitters and perfect games all the time. Lowe is too sporadic for the Yankees, he is better off in a club like the Giants, the Tigers, Mariners or even the Twins…

by superferret on Nov 20, 2008 2:18 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You obviously have forgotten

The “Derek Lowe” face on the mound. Lowe was a Jekyll and Hyde pitcher for us.

"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.

by SoxDevil on Nov 21, 2008 12:14 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

(Besides AJ, Lowe) From the List I Like..

Jon Garland (29) – Type B
Brad Penny (31) – Type B
Oliver Perez (27) – Type A
Ben Sheets (30) – Type A
Randy Wolf (32) – Type B

~ ROLL TIDE ~

GO SOX!!

by Bama Sox on Nov 19, 2008 8:18 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Why not sign Tex and a pitcher?

As we see with Charger, they could have both and keep payroll at $130M (plus bench costs)

by BTLove on Nov 19, 2008 7:27 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well, besides the two Japanese pitchers on the above list, all of the ones that I thought woul be a decent fit would cost us a draft pick.

Except for Glendon Rusch, but he was more of a player that could be a steal if he pitches well. He’s a lefty though, so I’m not sure I’d like him if he exploded like Lester did in the playoffs.
Randy Wolf interests me though, and if we’re willing to go after an injury-prone Burnett (who only performs in contract years), why not try Sheets? He’d get less innings as a #4 pitcher (Beck, Lester, DiceK), and performs when healthy (BIG when).
Brad Penny has been mentioned before on another post, and Garland pitched well against almost everyone, averaged more than 6IP a start, and has a K/BB ratio of more than 1.5

Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 19, 2008 8:10 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Eh, scratch my Garland idea.

More stats:
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=232&position=P

Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 19, 2008 8:17 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I can see Ben Sheets though

if the Sox get Tex, I can see them taking a shot at Ben Sheets since his price will be cheaper. If D. Lowe was represented by anyone else but Scott Boras I would of thought he would possible.

by SoxAcumen on Nov 19, 2008 8:08 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't care if the last two hitters in that line-up are Julio Lugo and Jason Varitek

That line-up 1-7 is awesome.

Rotation? Everyone is on and we will have team and league Cy Young races.

Bullpen? Good-bye late collapses.

Well, I'll appreciate for you to keep my zingers outta your mouth!

by BoSox415 on Nov 19, 2008 6:55 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Everyone is forgetting

About the guy who was universally considered one of the top 10 prospects in baseball last year, has dominated the minors, and already has a major league no-hitter on his resume. We need to put a lot more faith in Clay and his development, he has the talent to be one of the best pitchers in baseball within the next five years.

by Gnick on Nov 19, 2008 10:19 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   1 recs

I haven't forgotten

But rec’d anyways.

Manny ain't the only bad man.

by tommy.otm on Nov 19, 2008 10:21 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I have faith in Buccholz

But I’m just not ready to hand him a starting gig in April. He has work to do, and he needs to sort out his problems before he breaks our rotation. Having him, Masterson, and Bowden makes me OK with signing an injury risk like Sheets or Burnett. They will pitch great for the first half, and if they go down, then we have guys who can fill in.

by Schulz on Nov 19, 2008 10:27 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I believe in Clay Buchholz.

"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.

by 0157H7 on Nov 20, 2008 12:39 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

*claps*

I believe in fairies!

In all seriousness, I think that Buchholz has the chops and will have success similar to Jon Lester (a bit shaky, then a few good/bad stretches, then dominant). Better a cost-controlled potential ace than an aging control pitcher for the bottom of the rotation.

"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.

by SoxDevil on Nov 20, 2008 12:41 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Santa?

Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 20, 2008 6:39 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Buchholz needs alot of work...

Why Buchholz was good when he debuted in MLB was he was new and his pitches were unique, would those huge breaking ball pitches hit the corners or not??? However what happened is those awesome breaking balls, became quite hittable when batters started to know when they were breaking. When Buchholz saw this, he panicked and started to change all his pitches in midseason and it seems right in the middle of the game, or try to throw out of the strike zone…

I think Buchholz should be traded, or he needs a major overhaul. He can’t go back to the major leagues with the pitches he used before. He has to do a Dennis Eckersley transformation…

Even if Buchholz is traded, he will be in AA or AAA for the next two years as he learns new techniques.

I also think he has enormous potential, but he needs some smarts and composure to be a starting pitcher… he appear to lack this as his season went way downhill.

by superferret on Nov 20, 2008 2:11 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Have a little faith. People were skeptical of giving Pedroia the starting spot at 2B, and then calling for him to be sent down to the minors and have Cora in the beginning of the season, but the FO stuck with him because they believed in his potential, and we all know how that ended

Clay also has tremendous potential, maybe even more then Pedroia was thought to have, so have a little faith. There are countless examples of SP with high potential that struggled their first year in the majors, and still went on to dominate (Santana is a perfect comparison, his first year, in slightly more innings, had an only slightly lower ERA, a higher WHIP, a higher BA, and less Ks then Clay last year)

by Realistic on Nov 20, 2008 2:34 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Clay needs alot of work..

  Buchholz has shown he has an enormous talent, but he panicked in 2008, he didn’t have the mentality to be a starting pitcher, and his beautiful breaking balls were being hammered by smart batters.. Just watch on MLB.com his game in Chicago against the White Sox, (I think it was his last game before being sent down) he lost confidence in his pitches, and was trying to change his mechanics right in the middle of the game!

Pitchers need alot of TLC and delicate handling. The best example is someone like Johan Santana, who took years to develop. I am all for keeping Buchholz in the organization if he has a great pitching coach. I am all for trading him if he can blossomed elsewhere. He needs a major overhaul. The days of his big loopy breaking balls are over.

by superferret on Nov 20, 2008 3:14 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I rather see them spend too much on tex than spend too much on AJ burnett

by spinz on Nov 20, 2008 12:07 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Teixeira is a good player.

He’s not on the level of Manny though, at least not as a hitter. At his age, Manny had four seasons of >.400 OBP (age 27 and 28, .442 and .457 respectively). Tex has two, .400 and .410. Manny had two forty HR seasons, Tex has had just one. I can go into greater detail, but Manny’s a first-ballot Hall of Fame hitter, while Tex may have to settle for the Hall of Very Good.

Why compare Tex to Manny? Because he’s in line for Manny money, $20 million a year for six plus years. I really like Tex’s game, especially his defense. It seemed like he stole at least three doubles from us in the ALDS. With his bat and the hit to the Yankees / Angels, it might be worth $20 million. Still, this would be a lot to commit, and I don’t see Theo doing it.

"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.

by 0157H7 on Nov 20, 2008 12:53 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Would Tex make the HOF if he keeps up his current pace?

"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.

by SoxDevil on Nov 20, 2008 12:42 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

In a Sox uni, yes.

He’d get lots of guys to drive in, plenty of face time come October, be talked about as a winner, a fair amount fo MVP vote, etc.

Stick him in Washington, and he’s Fred McGriff.

Manny ain't the only bad man.

by tommy.otm on Nov 20, 2008 1:53 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Instructional videos?

Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 20, 2008 6:40 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ex-squeeze me?

Baking powder?

Manny ain't the only bad man.

by tommy.otm on Nov 20, 2008 6:53 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Umm...

Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 20, 2008 6:58 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's on my list of movies to see when bored.

Is 2 any good?

Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 20, 2008 8:05 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm sure it is.

Maybe I’ll watch it over and over. I don’t know. I’ll discover great movies from the past like I discovered the great music from the past. It’ll be on someday when I’m bored, and I’ll get hooked. Until then, BTB (back to baseball).

Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 20, 2008 8:25 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Manny Money

As far as I’m concerned, a $200 M contract is worth less than Manny’s $160 M contract when put in historical context. Once you account for inflation and the fact that baseball had less money in general, I don’t think it’s such an outlandish contract if you consider him one of the game’s premier hitters.

"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.

by SoxDevil on Nov 20, 2008 12:37 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think Teixeira will go to Balitmore or to Washington DC.

 the Red Sox has to make some deals before offering Teixeira a monster contract. They would have to trade Lowell, eat some of his contract, even trade Lugo, eating some of his contract as well… Trading Lowell is going to be difficult. Youklis will be much easier to trade, given he still cheaper than Lowell, he is in prime. Any player that should be traded is Ortiz, and make Teixiera 1B/DH…

I think the Sox are in the bidding war for one reason only, to drive up the price for the Yankees, the Yankees need Teixeira more than the Sox need him. The Sox have to make some major deals and do some juggling before even sitting down at the table with Teixiera. The Yankees don’t have that problem.

by superferret on Nov 20, 2008 1:58 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I doubt it.

I think the Sox are in this for real, as are the Angels, and both teams are able and willing to spend as much as Baltimore and Washington. And as much as Tex would like to be near home, I’ve got to think he wants to win. He looked hungry in the playoffs.

As for the Yanks, I wouldn’t be surprised if he Yanks picked up Mike Cameron to play CF, put Swisher at first, and spent a boatload of money on multiple pitchers.

The Sox could sign Tex before figuring out what to to with the rest of the roster. They’ve just cleared about $35 million off the books (Manny, Curt, Tek and Coco were around $43, and Bay is about $8, so I think $35 is a safe guess). I don’t think trading Lowell will be all that difficult. Trading Lowell for what he is worth, maybe that would be hard, but simply moving him shouldn’t be too hard.

Lugo on the other hand…

Manny ain't the only bad man.

by tommy.otm on Nov 20, 2008 2:12 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You thought he looked hungry?

Maybe he needs… a TACO!

"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.

by 0157H7 on Nov 20, 2008 2:20 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Lowell is going to be much more difficult in a trade....

Much like Pedro and his shoulder, Lowell has a pretty serious injury to his hip aka a torn tendon. Whether his surgery was successful, he has a high chance of having continuing problems with his right hip, especially range of motion. Any team is going to be really hesitant in trading for Lowell on the hip issue alone. If Lowell still has major problems with his hip, he will have to retire by the end of 2009…

I can see Lowell maybe going to a team like the Pirates or a young team that needs a leader in the clubhouse, but Lowell may be difficult in getting any sort of deal that is good for the Red Sox, basically a couple minor league prospects and a big eating of Lowell’s salary by the Sox’s management.

All I can say, he isn’t going to the three teams that play on artificial turf.

by superferret on Nov 20, 2008 2:38 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I disagree with a few of your points.

1. They can’t trade Lowell before signing Tex, that would just be dumb. If they trade Lowell, thinking they had Tex ready to sign, and some other team came in with a big offer to steal him away, that would be catastrophic. Theo would figure out potential trade partners for Lowell and speak with some GMs. Then he would sign Tex and make the Lowell trade after.
2. There is no need to trade Lugo in order to sign Tex. They are completely unrelated.
3. Obviously Youk would be easy to trade- so would Pedroia, among others. That doesn’t mean we trade them. Youk and Tex are long-term solutions. Lowell has 2 years left, so keeping him over Lowell will just have us looking for another 3B down the road.
4. Lowell wouldn’t be that hard to trade. We would be selling low for sure, but he would be an upgrade for many teams.
5. Ortiz should not be traded, that is ridiculous. And Tex wouldn’t DH because he is a gold glove 1B.

I should’ve rephrased my title. "I disagree with a few all of your points.

by Schulz on Nov 20, 2008 2:39 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Trading Lugo is more about payroll than performance or position. if they are going to offer Teixeira a monster contract, they need to know their payroll projection in the next couple years, and how much of Lugo’s $9 million a year contract they are going to eat.. The Red Sox may be many things, but they are not reckless, given how Manny’s contract was looked upon as a burden..

 Papi is an icon, there is a very good chance his number will be retired by the Sox. However, Papi is overweight and is dealing some injuries that deal with his hitting. I am looking at this from a business angle, it is better to trade Ortiz know, and get something rather than get an underperforming, expensive player in the Richie Sexton category, who can’t be moved. Papi’s number are also going to drop without Manny in the lineup.. I love Papi, he single handily led the Red Sox’s to the promise land after 86 years of being in the wilderness, but sentimentality doesn’t win games in 2009, against a newly tuned Yankees with a possible Manny Ramirez in the lineup. I am looking at his trade value, not his icon status…

Lowell has a pretty serious injury to his labrum that may effect his cartilage or even has some sort of hip degeneration, think Bo Jackson, ( What he had was different, he cut off his blood supply to his hip socket when he was tackled in 1991 NFL playoffs) Many teams are going to be really hesitant in giving much for Lowell. I think many teams are going to take a wait and see with Lowell, if he seems to be fine during mid season and isn’t out with injuries, he will probably be traded mid season.

I am talking about trades, I am not exactly wild in trading top players like Youklis, but Youklis is a much better trade bait to get a many good players, because he is cheap and in the prime of his career, compare to Lowell, who has two more years on his contract worth $12 million a year contract and a very questionable hip injury.. Lowell is better off being traded mid season, in which the Sox can get a better deal. I don’t see many GM’s taking a big risk on Lowell until they talk to their team physicians. Hip injuries like torn labrums are pretty serious matters

   I was throwing out hypothetical scenarios if trading Lowell didn’t pan out, and the Sox want Teixeira, and in some ways, Ortiz could be moved if Lowell can’t be moved, or at the price that the Red Sox want. I also wrote, 1B/DH.

Trades are about the future, not the present. Much like letting Johnny Damon and Pedro go at the time seemed to be bad moves. Now they seemed to be works of sheer genius.

by superferret on Nov 20, 2008 3:07 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Damon has remained a very productive hitter.

"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.

by SoxDevil on Nov 21, 2008 12:22 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

.

The PR backlash of trading Ortiz is not worth the added production from Teixeira. It is silly to even consider trading players like Youk and Papi for so many reasons. They are very productive, the fans love them, they are role models for their teammates- especially the young guys, you wouldn’t get a fair return on them in a trade… I could go on.

I realize you’re considering hypotheticals, but until you can give me a good reason to trade away the faces of our franchise, I can’t agree with what you’re saying.

by Schulz on Nov 21, 2008 3:14 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I guess from a purely competitive stand you could discuss the merits of trading Ortiz, but like Schulz is getting at, in the end it is a business where you want to bring in customers, and yes winning bring in fans, but so does fan favorites like Ortiz, and trading him away would just lose some fans.

Why do you think no one signed Bonds last year, even though he would make a more serviceable DH then what many teams out there currently have…because the grand goal of Teams is to attract fans, and a widely hated player like Bonds isn’t exactly attractive

by Realistic on Nov 21, 2008 3:26 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

trade ortiz?

First off, of course they want to trade Lugo, but its not necessary before signing Teixeira. I think the Sox can safely assume they will be paying most if not all of Lugo’s contract no matter what.

Now, if we did sign Teixeira we would have to trade one of Youk, Lowell, or Papi. No chance we trade Youk. He’s cheap and in his prime. He is one of the more valuable players in the league. For Ortiz, setting aside any sentimentality, he is one year removed from the best year of his career by OPS+. He only makes 12.5 mil per, the same as Lowell. If you traded him, you would have one of Youk, Tex or Lowell DHing. All of these guys are valuable because they are excellent in the field, so you would be giving up some value there as well. There’s no question that Lowell is the guy you trade, even if you get very little in return. The Sox wouldn’t need much in return if they signed Tex, they would be set.

by BTLove on Nov 22, 2008 12:11 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Teixeira would not DH

Let’s think crazy for a moment, and assume that Ortiz is traded for a box of Crackerjacks. It makes far more sense to play Teixeira at 1B, slide Youk to 3B, and let Mikey Lowell DH.

"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.

by SoxDevil on Nov 21, 2008 12:20 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This, in today's Boston Globe
Theo Epstein is nothing if not logical, so we wouldn’t be shocked to learn that the Red Sox’ bloodless general manager is quietly shopping David Ortiz this off-season. We have no hard evidence to support this suspicion, mind you. It’s just that, if certain things fall into place during the hot stove season, it makes more sense than some of us wish to admit. Consider: Should the Red Sox win the Mark Teixeira lottery — and we’re absolutely convinced that a lucrative-bordering-on-obscene offer will be forthcoming from Yawkey Way — manager Terry Francona will be obligated to try to cram four high-quality everyday players (Ortiz, Teixeira, Kevin Youkilis, Mike Lowell) into three positions (third base, first base, designated hitter). Rather than dealing with that conundrum (not to mention the egos), it’s more likely that the Sox would deal one of the quartet — most likely Lowell, assuming he returns in good form after hip surgery. But it’s no longer blasphemous to suggest that Epstein should at least gauge interest in the 33-year-old Ortiz as well.

Boston Globe

"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.

by SoxDevil on Nov 21, 2008 12:31 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

In fairness, SoxDevil

Your quote is from Chad Finn’s blog on boston.com. While I like to read Finn’s stuff, the quote is kind of misleading because it’s a fan’s-eye view. As such, it is no different from anything posted by anyone here. Finn doesn’t cover the team.

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Nov 21, 2008 1:34 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Oh, it's complete fluff

Pure, unadulterated speculation on par with anything posted here. I should have pointed out that this was not reporting, and there was absolutely no fact involved. Nevertheless, I thought it was worth a copy and paste.

"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.

by SoxDevil on Nov 21, 2008 3:09 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Finn's last sentence is incorrect.

It is blasphemous to suggest trading Ortiz. At least among most Sox fans.

by Schulz on Nov 21, 2008 3:17 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

There is nothing more pretentious

than using “we” in place of “I” in formal writing.

“We have no hard evidence to support this suspicion, mind you.”
Should read
I have no hard evidence to support this suspicion.”

It’s stupid and annoying. Moreover, it weakens the meaning of your piece. If you have an idea, you should express it as your own, not attribute it to yourself along with non-existent other people.

In a just world, Chad Finn and Eric Wilbur would not be getting space on the Globe’s website, let alone money.

"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.

by 0157H7 on Nov 21, 2008 4:20 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This Eric Wilbur?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOfHvam7zfg

Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 21, 2008 5:33 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Nah,

THIS one.

"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.

by 0157H7 on Nov 21, 2008 10:57 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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