Coco Crisp traded to Royals for Ramon Ramirez
From Rotoworld:
Sports Radio 810 WHB in Kansas City reports that the Red Sox have traded Coco Crisp to the Royals in exchange for Ramon Ramirez.
Former Royals outfielder Brian McRae broke the story, but we're still waiting to see the move confirmed by other sources. Ramirez had an excellent rookie year for the Rockies in 2006 before struggling in 2007, but bounced back following a trade to the Royals last season, posting a 2.64 ERA and 70/31 K/BB ratio in 71 2/3 innings. Dealing for Crisp would leave the Royals with a very crowded outfield and could indicate that the team is on the verge of dealing Mark Teahen or David DeJesus.
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AND It's confirmed:
“The Red Sox have traded center fielder Coco Crisp to the Royals for righthanded relief pitcher Ramon Ramirez, the Globe’s Nick Cafardo has confirmed.”
This Ramirez seems pretty good.
2008: 71.2 IP, 70 K, 31 BB, 2 HR, 46% Groundball %, 2.69 FIP
A couple ways this acquisition could impact the team. Ramirez could be packaged with someone else (ex. Bowden) for another player, like Salty. Also, Ramirez could anchor the pen and push Masterson into the rotation.
"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.
by 0157H7 on
Nov 19, 2008 11:36 AM EST
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Another Team
I dont know to much about Ramirez (stats look good), but like you said this may be used to trade somewhere else…
~ ROLL TIDE ~
GO SOX!!
by Bama Sox on
Nov 19, 2008 12:07 PM EST
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According to Klaw
6 of those BBs were intentional.
Manny ain't the only bad man.
by tommy.otm on
Nov 19, 2008 3:53 PM EST
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Ramon Ramirez
Is more the 3 years away from free agency, despite being 27 years old. Ramirez has a mid-90s fastball, a splitter and a slider, and keeps the ball in the park better than MDC. Ramirez did not do terribly well in ’07, but he did pitch well in ’06 for Colorado of all places.
Coco Crisp is only a year away from free agency, so it’s hard to complain about what we got out of the deal.
"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.
by SoxDevil on
Nov 19, 2008 12:13 PM EST
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More on Coco
Crisp will earn $5.7 million in 2009, with a club option for 2010 for $8 million or a $500,000 buyout. So, the Red Sox have even more payroll flexibility.
"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.
by SoxDevil on
Nov 19, 2008 1:25 PM EST
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I wonder how much of Coco's $ the Sox are picking up?
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on
Nov 19, 2008 1:26 PM EST
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None, as I understand
"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.
by SoxDevil on
Nov 20, 2008 12:43 PM EST
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Ramirez's stats are interesting
He has a good K-rate, but looks like he lacks control: 3.89 K/9 and 6 WP last year. There’s some speculation as to whether this trade signals that Masterson will start next year. It might just as well signal a trade of Masterson (or Bowden) to Texas for a catcher—which I hope isn’t Salty.
It’s hard to assess this trade until we see the subsequent moves. Drew has back problems, so a 4th OF may be very important. All I know is Ellsbury better step up next year.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on
Nov 19, 2008 12:19 PM EST
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4th OF
I agree with that…the only thing that bothers me about Drew is his health….One player I would like for us to possibly get for the 4th OF to come off the bench is Josh Willingham…he is a local guy where I am from (call me a homer); he just got traded to the Nats who have a crowded OF so maybe a trade could be made for him. Then again, he has health issues also….
~ ROLL TIDE ~
GO SOX!!
by Bama Sox on
Nov 19, 2008 12:46 PM EST
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Woonsocket's own
Sign Rocco Baldelli to be your 4th OF. Despite balky hammies and a mitochondrial disorder, he can still play a couple times per week. In fact, his hammies are my biggest concern. When Baldelli’s in the game and not hurt he’s a fine player and a good hitter.
"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.
by SoxDevil on
Nov 19, 2008 12:54 PM EST
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i like baldelli
i have always been on his bandwagon and would think he’d be a nice fit as a 4th OF to start the season… if ellsbury struggles and baldelli can stay healthy maybe he becomes the CF?
bama – i would presume one of the other OF’s washington has would be dealt.. not willingham. he’s not the worst player of the bunch.
by EWS1532 on
Nov 19, 2008 1:13 PM EST
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Baldelli can't start
Which means the Sox would need another OF if Drew got hurt or Ellsbury struggles. In that regard, Rocco is a bad fit. However, he is tough on left-handed pitching, which is what the Sox need from a 4th OF (as Drew and Ellsbury are lefties).
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on
Nov 19, 2008 1:18 PM EST
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who decided baldelli cant start?
if drew gets hurt and ellsbury struggles youre between a rock and a hard place. you probably find yourself sticking with ellsbury b/c you have to and starting your “4th” OF (in this example baldelli) in right.
are you suggesting baldelli’s health is the reason he can’t start?
by EWS1532 on
Nov 19, 2008 1:59 PM EST
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Yep
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on
Nov 19, 2008 2:02 PM EST
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Yeah
With his mitochondrial disorder, he can play maybe 2 games in a row. He needs a lot of rest.
by BTLove on
Nov 19, 2008 2:26 PM EST
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hold on a minute
maybe i need some clarification…
i’m under the impression that the disorder he had was something that was affecting him daily, was diagnosed, treated, and at the end of last season was recovering and regaining strength.
i did not believe that this is a chronic issue that is simply being dealt with.. not treated and will affect him the rest of his career.
i’d have to think that 3 months of rest and rehab can only help him regain the pure physical condition he was in prior to the illness.
by EWS1532 on
Nov 19, 2008 3:17 PM EST
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Like buzzy said, it is a rare condition that has no cure as of now. It is a hereditary disorder that is encoded into his DNA, and it causes extreme pain and fatigue from regular physical activity.
So quite literally, he can’t start, his body can’t take it
by Realistic on
Nov 19, 2008 4:08 PM EST
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Don’t get me wrong, he has the great skill set to be a great starter, but unfortunately for him it’s just not possible, at least not until they find a cure
by Realistic on
Nov 19, 2008 4:10 PM EST
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i got it now
it seems tbs can tell you how instrumental chuck lamar was in putting together a WS team but can’t explain why rocco’s legs are falling off properly.
by EWS1532 on
Nov 19, 2008 4:16 PM EST
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Its such a rare condition that the doctors are not entirely sure how to deal with it. From what I understand there is a chance that they could figure out some kind of better treatment, but most likely he will be a 2 or 3 times a week player.
by BTLove on
Nov 19, 2008 6:17 PM EST
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lamar? dont you mean friedman, the EOTY?
everything Rays,Marlins,Twins and Reds
by RaysOfHope on
Nov 19, 2008 11:16 PM EST
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not according to chip caray
i was taking a jab at tbs… the point was they didnt talk about friedman at all during the ALCS.. they did, however, do a 10 minute interview with chuck lamar (now a scout for the phillies) about the instrumental role he played in putting together the tampa bay club.
the interview was really great.. it feature craig sager in a wacky suit sitting next to lamar reading questions off of notecards and trying to be real sneaky about it.
this is what you get when you employ a comedy station to cover baseball games… comedy.
by EWS1532 on
Nov 20, 2008 7:27 AM EST
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Yeah TBS sucks, but TNT (same people as TBS) is pretty awesome at basketball coverage.
by BTLove on
Nov 20, 2008 11:16 AM EST
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Different games.
Basketball is constant action, so they can just narrate (‘so and so passes to that guy, he passes to that guy, shoots, off the rim, rebound, holds, holds, holds…"’
A baseball announcer’s is to fill the silence and say something meaningful about the sport. They fail.
Manny ain't the only bad man.
by tommy.otm on
Nov 20, 2008 11:36 AM EST
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let me explain the rocco situation to full
rocco can only play a couple of times a week because of his mitochondrial disease which causes him to become extremely fatigued, which also cause his legs to shake around the 5th or 6th inning, and amazingly he says he has learned how to hit while they shake. i would hate for rocco to go to a team that i cant stand, but your GM is a genius (showing it more with the trade of coco) so i wouldnt be surprised if he signed rocco if the rays dont resign him
everything Rays,Marlins,Twins and Reds
by RaysOfHope on
Nov 19, 2008 11:14 PM EST
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Willingham
I think the Nats traded for him to be a starter. I hits about .270 with 20 HR and decent OPS (~.830). I’ve got to think that he will start over Willy Mo Pena.
by Schulz on
Nov 19, 2008 1:11 PM EST
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4th OF is already on the team...
Say we get Tex, keep Lowell and Drew is hurt….
Bay moves to RF and Youk goes to LF…
More reason why we need Tex
~ ROLL TIDE ~
GO SOX!!
by Bama Sox on
Nov 19, 2008 2:56 PM EST
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Bay is not a good fit for RF at Fenway
Bay is below average defensively and has a below-average arm. RF at Fenway is tough because of the sun (in day games) and the size.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on
Nov 19, 2008 3:41 PM EST
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And the extreme, weird angles
of the RF corner.
"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.
by 0157H7 on
Nov 19, 2008 11:35 PM EST
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3.89 K/9?
Where did you get that from?
70K over 71.2 IP is 0.98K/1 inning which equals 8.79K/9…
by Schulz on
Nov 19, 2008 1:05 PM EST
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My mistake that's 3.89 BB/9
A high walk rate.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on
Nov 19, 2008 1:12 PM EST
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Good move
Our bullpen got better and younger. I would of preferred Sean Marshall of the Cubs, but still a good trade for the Sox.
Ramirez was Soria’s setup man.
My guess would be that the Sox resign Mark Kotsay bc he plays all 3 OF spots and 1b.
Also it looks like Bowden is the odd man out: Buchholz is going nowhere from the reports on what other teams are asking for, Masterson seems like the Sox “swingman” so that leaves Bowden for a catching deal.
by SoxAcumen on
Nov 19, 2008 12:57 PM EST
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Sean Marshall
Didn’t he get traded to the A’s in the Harden trade?
by Gnick on
Nov 19, 2008 4:39 PM EST
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Sean Gallagher
Gallagher is the RH starter, Marshall is the LH relief pitcher that Manny tattooed when he threw a curveball in the dirt which Manny hit off his own shoes.
I just want Lopez gone and want anyone to replace him.
by SoxAcumen on
Nov 19, 2008 6:02 PM EST
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I like it.
We dealt from a position of strength and created a pretty formidable bullpen.
CL: Papelbon
8th: Masterson/Oki
7th: Delcarmen/Ramirez
Loogy: J. Lopez
Long Relief: Bucchoz? Bowden?
This gives us a lot of flexability. We can move Masterson to the rotation or trade another bp arm (Delcarmen or Ramirez).
by Schulz on
Nov 19, 2008 1:17 PM EST
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Hmm, I sleep in and look what happens! Coco gets traded…
On this surface, this looks like a good trade but I’ll have to dive into the numbers more…
by Randy Booth on
Nov 19, 2008 1:28 PM EST
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Me too!
I swear, I am going to miss school tomorrow and just sleep all day and hope that we trade Lowell and Lugo and get Tex.
Well, I'll appreciate for you to keep my zingers outta your mouth!
by BoSox415 on
Nov 19, 2008 4:48 PM EST
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I had a early release day from school if that counts.
I’d rather that school started 2 hours later, but 2 hours early release is cool too. I’m not even going to be at my school tomorrow, but at a mall on school business b/c of a math competition (don’t laugh people). Maybe that will help the cause.
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on
Nov 19, 2008 5:42 PM EST
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Well, I'm unemployed, so hah
No school for me anymore, so I get to sit on my ass whenever I want, but just for a few more weeks until my winter job starts.
Why is your math comp at the mall? did Bed, Bath and Beyond sponsor it or something?
by BTLove on
Nov 19, 2008 6:22 PM EST
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We had early release too.
But I had some 3-hour stomach bug in the middle of the night, and then I slept till 7:30 thinking I wasn’t going to school.
Is the math competition called MathCounts? I don’t do that, I do Brain Bowl. It’s so funny, I kick ass on all baseball questions.
Well, I'll appreciate for you to keep my zingers outta your mouth!
by BoSox415 on
Nov 19, 2008 6:42 PM EST
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Bye Covelli.
Can we keep the name Coco for the next young OF with a great glove, bad arm? Wait, that’s Ells.
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on
Nov 19, 2008 2:07 PM EST
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Everyone was so caught up in the Teixeira Lowell
stuff that we forgot about Coco. I have never heard of that guy before, but it sounds like a good deal.
Well, I'll appreciate for you to keep my zingers outta your mouth!
by BoSox415 on
Nov 19, 2008 2:26 PM EST
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The momentum suckers are starting to be jetisoned!
Good!!!!!!!! It all means a better future for the Sox, and shows Sox management is indeed serious about fixing the glaring problems of 2008!
I am already getting excited about 2009, but it could easily have been another story if Lugo , Wakefield, Crisp and Varitek were kept around. Therefore, one down and 3 to go. Keep it up management!
by NG on
Nov 19, 2008 3:37 PM EST
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Is Lugo gone yet??
If so, then 2 down and with 2 to go!
by NG on
Nov 19, 2008 3:39 PM EST
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Umm... Wake got resigned NG.
Perpetual option remember? $4mil?
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on
Nov 19, 2008 5:43 PM EST
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Well if Lugo, Crisp and Varitek go,
that is 75% of the sucking problem gone. That is quite good in its own right, but not as good as it needs to be. Wakefield needs to retire! I guarantee you if he pitches next year, almost all of his outings will be embarrassing disasters like the bulk of his last 4 this past year. He will not make it to the end of next season because he is too old and is washed up!
by NG on
Nov 19, 2008 7:42 PM EST
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Good Ole NG, I missed ya old timer!! Remember in 2007 when you insisted the Sox would not win in the playoffs? haha good times!!!
by matzushocka45 on
Nov 19, 2008 7:49 PM EST
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Not even surprised that he was impending-doom then either.
Maybe NG just isn’t clutch, or tries to suck our momentum caused by loyal optimism.
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on
Nov 19, 2008 8:34 PM EST
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Umm...
the bulk of his last 4
Disregarding the oxymoron of a “bulk” of 4, that would be 3 of his last 4 starts, right?
http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/gl.cgi?n1=wakefti01&t=p&year=2008
His last four starts in the regular season were: 8 inning shutout of TOR, explosion at Rays (2.1IP, 6ER), 6 inning win vs. CLE, and a 5 IP ND vs. the MFY.
1 “embarrassing disaster,” 1 OK, 1 quality, and 1 awesome start.
FTR, he had one start against the Rays in the postseason, 2.2IP, 6 ER. Besides the Rays, he did pretty well.
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on
Nov 19, 2008 8:33 PM EST
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It's like cancer,
any of it is bad and will get much worse. The 3 embarrassing ( and I mean really little league embarrassing stuff at that) starts out of the last 4 for Wakefield were a cancer like dx or wake-up call that he is through! Deal with it if you want a less mediocre or even a WS winning team! Pitchers in their forties do NOT get better with age!
by NG on
Nov 20, 2008 8:13 AM EST
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No.
Do not compare a incredibly deadly disease to baseball. Ever. It’s like saying that players are weapons.
Umm… Satchel Paige, Jaime Moyer, Warren Spahn, Nolan Ryan, Roger Clemens, Phil Neikro… I could go on.
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on
Nov 20, 2008 6:20 PM EST
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Once they start down hill, they are through at that age range!
Wakefield has passed the trigger test of downhill sliding, and there is no going back for him or the Sox.
by NG on
Nov 20, 2008 7:42 PM EST
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Silence fool:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/p/paigesa01.shtml
http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/moyerja01.shtml
http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/spahnwa01.shtml
http://www.baseball-reference.com/r/ryanno01.shtml
http://www.baseball-reference.com/n/niekrph01.shtml
http://www.baseball-reference.com/n/niekrjo01.shtml (Joe Neikro)
http://www.baseball-reference.com/w/wakefti01.shtml
Notice, all of the non-knucklers performed well later in their careers, usually after a season or two of bad pitching (ERA+). Wake seems to be following this path, with a 112 last year. Actually, last year was one of his best. Maybe he’ll discover the secret to being a long lasting knuckleball pitcher.
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on
Nov 20, 2008 8:12 PM EST
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Joking about the fool part, btw.
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on
Nov 20, 2008 8:14 PM EST
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You are a good guy, BUT
we will just have to agree to disagree on this one. I find myself saying that a lot around here?? Anyway, if Wakefield does show up next year on the Sox roster, I guess we will see, but I stand by my prediction that he will NOT make it through the season!
by NG on
Nov 21, 2008 9:24 AM EST
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You're our reality check, NG
To determine actual performance, take the median of an average Red Sox fan’s delusional projections and NG’s doomsday projections. Voila! Numbers you can take to Vegas.
"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.
by SoxDevil on
Nov 21, 2008 12:10 PM EST
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How about a bet then?
If he makes it through the season, you change your icon to something of my choice (nothing weird).
Same if you win, I’ll change mine.
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on
Nov 21, 2008 5:16 PM EST
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For the sake of having a record of this, I'll do a screen shot of this conversation.
Starting at the “You are…” comment to show Wake’s name.
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on
Nov 22, 2008 12:39 PM EST
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I can always tell when a comment is by NG
when the title is either 1. in caps or 2. ends with an exclamation point or question mark.
Well, I'll appreciate for you to keep my zingers outta your mouth!
by BoSox415 on
Nov 21, 2008 5:04 PM EST
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I thought we'd get more for Coco.
But I am all for cost-controlled relievers with lots of Ks.
Manny ain't the only bad man.
by tommy.otm on
Nov 19, 2008 3:39 PM EST
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I believe this is a sign that this is going to be a busy off-season
I don’t want to discuss whether or not it was a good trade or not, but whether or not this was to get things rolling.
Getting rid of Coco sounds a lot like something is going to happen in order to get a good 4th OF back. Does this mean Theo goes hard for Tex to platoon him, Youk, Els, Drew, Lowell, and Bay? 6 players, who should be starting, for 5 positions would create a pretty good insurance policy if one of them gets hit with the injury bug. Just a thought.
Or does this mean getting rid of Coco might free up a few extra million to spend on the highly speculated AJ?
Any other Sox going to be traded? (besides the typcial Tek and Lowell arguement)?
Man do I hate Longhorn fans, well except for the ones that actually went there.
by mystman995 on
Nov 19, 2008 5:08 PM EST
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Maybe MDC + a young prospect for a 4th OF and a MIF?
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on
Nov 19, 2008 5:44 PM EST
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Good news
Getting a good reliever should lessen some of our stress next summer!
by ccthemovieman on
Nov 19, 2008 5:44 PM EST
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I have a strong gut feeling this is the start of a trade to Cleveland for Shoppach/Victor and Guttierez. The Indians need a closer and Ramirez could do that for them; and clearly the Royals would not have dealt him to the Tribe. I can see Lowell as a fit in Cleveland, as well. Guttierz’s defense is great and he would make a perfect 4th OF for this team. I don’t know all the pieces involved, but I could really see it happening.
I’m not buying for one second Masterson will come out of the bullpen, so flipping Ramirez is a possility.
by matzushocka45 on
Nov 19, 2008 5:51 PM EST
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Hmm...
BOS receives: Shoppach, Guttierez
CLE receives: R.Ramirez, Lowell, Hansack? (They need a SP after 1-2)
Any ideas?
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on
Nov 19, 2008 5:59 PM EST
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Shoppach + Guttierez
for
Lowell, $$$ for Lowell’s contract, Hansack, and Ramirez
It would be great, because it’s like we gave up nothing for Crisp if you think about it hahaha poetic justice.
by matzushocka45 on
Nov 19, 2008 6:11 PM EST
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Hmm...
I want LaPorta kinda. I’m greedy, but he’d be an awesome LF in the future. Mega-deal:
BOS gets: Shoppach, LaPorta
CLE gets: Lowell + contract money, Ramirez, Buch/Bowden, Hansack
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on
Nov 19, 2008 6:27 PM EST
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Might be the UF homer in me though.
That and I have his autograph on a Gators cap. He ruled in the 2005 College World Series.
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on
Nov 19, 2008 6:28 PM EST
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Laporta is about as untouchable as you can get; rightfully so.
by matzushocka45 on
Nov 19, 2008 6:29 PM EST
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We used to HAVE LaPorta until we couldn’t sign him…
by Randy Booth on
Nov 20, 2008 1:17 PM EST
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Between that and Theo's choice of escape costumes, I have issues with him.
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on
Nov 20, 2008 6:21 PM EST
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Hansack doesn't have much value.
Essentially Cleveland would receive a player they might like but a contract they wouldn’t, a decent RH setup option, though all being equal not as good as either Rafael, and Hansack.
There’d have to be more in there from us, though I like the idea of getting both of those two players.
"Are you a real doctor, or a doctor like Dr. Pepper is a doctor?"
by Allen Chace on
Nov 19, 2008 6:34 PM EST
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They really need a 3B, and are cheap so if we cover Lowell’s $$ that would be a huge plus. Betancourt cannot close, he just can’t.Ramirez would instantly be the best closer option they have, more proven than Lewis. I think you are right though we might need to add another SP.
by matzushocka45 on
Nov 19, 2008 6:38 PM EST
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I don't think Ramirez is seen as a closer option
Or more teams, including Cleveland themselves, would have been in on him.
Although, Borowski did set the 9th inning bar low. I just don’t think, based on talent and stuff, that Ramirez > either Betancourt or Rafael Perez.
"Are you a real doctor, or a doctor like Dr. Pepper is a doctor?"
by Allen Chace on
Nov 19, 2008 7:53 PM EST
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Not many teams can pull off an intra-division trade without fan lashback.
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on
Nov 19, 2008 8:35 PM EST
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True.
And that part of my comment was ill-advised, but surely the Mets and many other teams would’ve been in on Ramirez and we’d have heard something about it if he was seen as a closer candidate.
"Are you a real doctor, or a doctor like Dr. Pepper is a doctor?"
by Allen Chace on
Nov 19, 2008 10:14 PM EST
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Minaya deciding to use common baseball sense to decide who to pick up?
Allen, please stop using.
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on
Nov 20, 2008 6:23 PM EST
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Good point.
Horrible with my examples. The point is, if he were a closer candidate, there’d have been more buzz.
"Are you a real doctor, or a doctor like Dr. Pepper is a doctor?"
by Allen Chace on
Nov 20, 2008 7:17 PM EST
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Yep.
But, then again, neither was Masterson, and that’s been the source of many inquiries from what I can tell.
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on
Nov 20, 2008 7:23 PM EST
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I like the Shoppach idea
He can really hit and I bet he is better when he is the main guy.
by SoxAcumen on
Nov 19, 2008 6:07 PM EST
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Shoppach is a windmill
He has struck out 241 times in 716 PA. His career OBP is .323 (Tek’s OBP last year was .313). Shoppach has power and is good defensively. But most scouting reports say he is easy to pitch to, a mistake hitter.
I’m not sure he is starting material. He’ll be 29 next year. I wouldn’t trade too much to get him
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on
Nov 19, 2008 8:41 PM EST
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More time in a system that teaches plate discipline could help.
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on
Nov 19, 2008 8:48 PM EST
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He spent 4 years in the Sox' system
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on
Nov 19, 2008 8:52 PM EST
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How many before the advent of the Theo and Tito's philosophy?
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on
Nov 19, 2008 9:28 PM EST
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He was drafted by Duquette in 2001, and was in the system from 2002-2005.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on
Nov 19, 2008 9:34 PM EST
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I wish we could pinpoint the point where everything went from...
sign big hitters, big pitchers, act like the Yankees
TO
build the farm system through the draft, develop players into valuable pieces (for trade or play), sign a big name every once in a while to make team amazing.
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on
Nov 19, 2008 9:41 PM EST
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Disagree on the last part
Shop is starting material. I just think he wouldn’t be worthy of Buch or Bowden.
Mother---- him and John Wayne!
by MerryGoByeBye on
Nov 19, 2008 10:19 PM EST
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Saw an interesting proposal on an ESPN chat.
Something along the lines of Lars, Lowrie, Bowden and ? for Weiters. The chatter shot it down, but I would be up for overwhelming the Orioles. Weiters looks to be a stud.
Manny ain't the only bad man.
by tommy.otm on
Nov 19, 2008 8:39 PM EST
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Umm... yeah:
You misspelled his name, but here’s his BB-Ref Minors page:
http://minors.baseball-reference.com/players.cgi?pid=2
Anyone for sending Buch to the O’s for this kid?
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on
Nov 19, 2008 8:47 PM EST
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They don't want to trade him.
And any package that would force them to would be too much to give up.
"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.
by 0157H7 on
Nov 20, 2008 12:02 AM EST
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thanks, debbie downer
: )
Manny ain't the only bad man.
by tommy.otm on
Nov 20, 2008 10:03 AM EST
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Here's Jim Callis of Baseball America's take on the Crisp trade:
Terry, NY: Who won the Crisp-Ramirez deal today?
Jim Callis: I was surprised the Red Sox didn’t get more for Crisp, and relievers are volatile, so I’ll say the Royals. This deal will help Kansas City more than it will help Boston.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on
Nov 19, 2008 8:58 PM EST
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K. Law sort of agrees with Callis. His view is that Ramirez is not an idea 8th inning guy, and may have had his career year last year. He feels that his low HR rate is not sustainable, and he has a violent delivery that he is not great at repeating. However, I have not seen anyone say anything about the Sox picking up part of Coco’s contract. So, I guess they are not? Does anyone know about this?
by Buzzy on
Nov 19, 2008 9:21 PM EST
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This trade makes more sense if we trade Masterson.
I mean, I think Masterson is better than RamRam (I think I just coined that), so I hardly consider him to be expendable. But this make more sense if we’re about to flip Masterson to, say, Texas.
Manny ain't the only bad man.
by tommy.otm on
Nov 20, 2008 1:49 PM EST
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Agreed
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on
Nov 20, 2008 1:52 PM EST
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The Royals fans have been saying Ram-Ram
for quite some time, I think.
"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.
by 0157H7 on
Nov 20, 2008 2:16 PM EST
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Or, more likely,
he gets put back in the rotation.
"no1 has time to read your long comments, are you writing a book?"
by britsoxfan on
Nov 20, 2008 2:50 PM EST
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I don't think he is suited for starting
But, the Sox may put him back in the rotation. I kind of agree with Keith Law regarding Masterson. here’s an excerpt from today’s ESPN chat:
RJ (DC): Keith, thanks for the chat. With the Red Sox’s recent trade, do you think Masterson will start and if so, what is his ceiling as a starter?
Keith Law: Gammons – who would know – has written a few times that they want to try him in the rotation again. I don’t see it; he’s a low-slot guy without an anti-lefty pitch, and even with luck on balls in play he gave up nearly an .800 OPS (heavy on OBP) to lefties this year. Opposing managers can just load up with lefties, and they’ll face Masterson two or three times … that seems like a bad plan.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on
Nov 20, 2008 6:28 PM EST
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