How to resolve the catching situation
Okay. I think I know how to resolve the catching situation. Bear with me, though, because I don't think many of you will agree.
The Red Sox need to trade for Rangers catcher Jarrod Saltalamacchia.
Alright, so start typing up your comments now, but just hear me out. There are a couple of factors at play here but there are two that I think are really important:
- He would die to be a Boston Red Sox. Don't believe me? He even said that.
- He would actually like to be a backup catcher behind Jason Varitek for a year or even two. Don't believe me? Well, you obviously didn't click that link at the end of No. 1.
Now you say: "But Randy, his numbers have pretty much sucked in the big leagues so far." Well, touche -- for the most part. But, as every scout will tell you, Saltalamacchia has a lot of potential that just hasn't been tapped into yet. What do you think a year -- or even a half year -- behind Varitek would do? I think that might kick up his spirits and allow him to really break out.
There's only one catch here: the Sox would need to re-sign Varitek. The Herald says Varitek badly wants to stay in Boston. It makes sense, of course, because he has said in the past how great it is to play here. However, there are some that think Varitek (or agent Scott Boras) is going to want big money. Big money. In the range of 4 years/$53M.
Um. No.
Perhaps Varitek will give a really, really good hometown discount. If the Sox could re-sign him for two years, I think they'll be in a great position. Then the Sox could trade for Saltalamacchia (the Rangers will want to drain the Sox's farm system, of course) and have Varitek just train Salty to be the future. I see Salty taking over full-time in less than a year -- once he learns the Way of the Varitek.
Ok. Lay into me...
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134 comments
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Comments
I think if we pass on Tek just for a bit until Boras tries shopping those numbers around and comes back down to earth after he admits to himself that no one is that dumb, then we should be able to get tek for less then this ridiculous $53M. Kind of like when he tried to sell us on signing Chan Ho Park as out closer when we signed Dice-K, and we were just like “ummmmm….no”
by Realistic on Nov 11, 2008 12:46 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Salty is young, have a shitload of potential and a great bat
However, I think I could steal a base against him…
Mother---- him and John Wayne!
by MerryGoByeBye on Nov 11, 2008 12:50 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Teagarden is purported to have more potential both ways.
"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.
by SoxDevil on Nov 12, 2008 1:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Randy, in my professional opinion,
this thought appears to be a moment of lucidity, rather than a symptom of madness. Clearly the electroshock treatments are having the desired effect. (Just kidding.)
One of the best thing about Saltalamacchia is that you can platoon him very effectively with Tek. Each one of them has a distinctive split, and together they are complementary.
2008 Salty against RH: .311 / .426 / .451 (148 PA)
Career Salty against RH: .298 / .373 / .457
2008 Varitek against LH: .284 / .378 / .484
Career Tek against LH: .284 / .362 / .468
Of course, with Cash also in the stable, it might make sense to jettison Tek entirely. I’m definitely offering him arbitration, but this is one circumstance where I wouldn’t be unhappy if he accepted.
We’d need “Salty Rules” of course. Except unlike the Joba rules, the Salty rules would have him playing as much as possible, and Varitek as little as possible. I worry that Tito would give Tek way too much playing time, given his limited skill set at this point.
Also, Varitek needs to accept a 1-year deal if he wants to stay in Boston. No to 2-years. If he wants to stay, 1-year, $4 million is all he deserves. If some other teams wants to give him two or three years, more power to them, and more draft picks to us!
"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.
by 0157H7 on Nov 11, 2008 1:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Salty can also play 1B sometimes, as he did with the Rangers
Send Youk to 3B for a day every 8-10 games or so to give Lowell a rest and you can get Salty into a few more games when he isn’t catching.
by RSNexile on Nov 12, 2008 9:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Assuming we fail at signing that big free agent...
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 12, 2008 4:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Realistically...
…what do you see the BoSox being willing to part with for Saltalamacchia?
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 11, 2008 1:35 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Someone like Bowden+ another decent prospect. Someone like Ryan Kalish, maybe.
I would be surprised if Masterson or Buchholz were on the table.
"no1 has time to read your long comments, are you writing a book?"
by britsoxfan on Nov 11, 2008 2:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If you're still there,
what would you consider a fair deal?
"no1 has time to read your long comments, are you writing a book?"
by britsoxfan on Nov 11, 2008 2:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Masterson is untouchable at this point. The front office loves him way too much.
by Randy Booth on Nov 11, 2008 2:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
More so than Buchholz?
I’d love to see a Saltalamacchia plus something for Buchholz deal, but I the “plus something” would have to be huge, I’m thinking, for Boston to do that.
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 11, 2008 2:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Comparing ‘08 seasons, Masterson raised his value while Buchh lost some points. Buchholz is still very valuable, but I the Red Sox FO loves Masterson’s versatility.
by Randy Booth on Nov 11, 2008 2:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They love Masterson's toughness
No offense to Buchholz, he could be great, but Masterson has just shown T. Francona, the front office and the team that he wont break in the playoffs.
Right now they have 3 reliable pitchers in the bullpen for the playoffs with Okie, Masterson and Paps.
by SoxAcumen on Nov 11, 2008 3:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You can’t leave Delcarmen out of that mix…
by Randy Booth on Nov 11, 2008 3:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I believe he said
“reliable.”
Delcarmen’s line in the postseason:
8.2 IP, 11 H, 11 ER, 8 BB, 8 K
‘Good’ for an 11.42 ERA.
"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.
by 0157H7 on Nov 11, 2008 3:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If you're going by post-season numbers
Dice-K sucks. Maybe we should move him too. :-)
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Nov 11, 2008 3:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Correction
Sorry, I forgot about MDC. I like him alot, he is a Pedro disciple. My point was only that Masterson is far more valuable to the Red Sox in the pen being a setup guy/Ryan Madson type for Paps.
I love Dice-K, but I was talking about the bullpen and how important it is for the playoffs. No disrespect intended to some of the other pitchers on the staff.
My jab was more at Lopez, Timlin, etc..
by SoxAcumen on Nov 11, 2008 4:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And didn’t most of that come out of one shellacking?
by Randy Booth on Nov 11, 2008 3:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The numbers I posted are from two postseasons, 2007 and 2008. He’s pitched 3.2 scoreless ALDS innings, but has been absolutely shelled in ALCSs. Against the Indians he gave up 3 runs (1.2 IP), and 7 against the Rays (2 IP).
"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.
by 0157H7 on Nov 11, 2008 4:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
Materson is untouchable, as is Ellsbury and Lowrie.
Buchholz or Bowden will be the guy traded. Masterson is too important to the Sox bullpen which to be kind, has a few holes to fill.
by SoxAcumen on Nov 11, 2008 2:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I still think the Sox like Bucholz
I don’t think they’ve given up on this guy yet, and I’m pretty sure they value a guy they think can be a top of the rotation starter over a bullpen pitcher.
Either way, I’m not entirely sold on Salty. I wouldn’t give up either guy. Maybe stick to Bowden or Bard, but that probably wouldn’t get it done.
by BTLove on Nov 11, 2008 4:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I would only move Buchholz
if its for Teagarden. If its Salty, I agree with you, trade one of the other pitchers in our system.
by SoxAcumen on Nov 11, 2008 4:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd trade Lowrie for Teagarden
I think Lowrie will be a solid, yet unspectacular major leaguer.
"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.
by SoxDevil on Nov 12, 2008 1:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Nov 12, 2008 1:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I will take solid yet unspectacular at SS
for the next three or four years. I want Teagarden most of the Texas catchers, but I’d much rather a deal were structured around Bowden.
"no1 has time to read your long comments, are you writing a book?"
by britsoxfan on Nov 12, 2008 3:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Texas doesn't need that.
They have Michael Young!!!
Decide if that’s sarcasm or not.
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 12, 2008 4:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not sarcasm
Michael Young is pretty solid, and there’s no way the Rangers would give up Teagarden for Lowrie. I think they value T higher than Salty at this point but I could be wrong.
by Schulz on Nov 12, 2008 5:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They've said as much
I think Teagarden will have a higher price tag. He’s a much more well-rounded player.
"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.
by SoxDevil on Nov 13, 2008 12:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Keith Law on Buchholz, Bowden, etc ...
Here are two excerpts from Law’s ESPN chat today (11/14):
eric(lakeville): would it really take more than a package of bowden and bard for teargarden? Is just buchholz enough?
Keith Law: (2:23 PM ET ) I imagine the Rangers would take either offer. Not sure if the Red Sox would do either one, though. They’ve hesitated on Buchholz, for good reason, and they either love Bowden or they’ve done a nice job of boosting his value via hype.
and …
Brendan (Rathmines, Ireland): Should the Sox deal Clay Buchholz now, even with his value diminished with the terrible season, or retain him and hope he recovers some? I know that was the thinking on Craig Hansen…
Keith Law: (2:18 PM ET ) I think they’d be selling low on Buchholz. He’s not Hansen. Better delivery, better secondary stuff.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Nov 14, 2008 2:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, Masterson +
Maybe Masterson and Delcarmen for Saltalamacchia and something else
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 11, 2008 2:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
way too much
Salty is not worth MLB players, he is worth prospects.
by SoxAcumen on Nov 11, 2008 3:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe Kris Johnson, Ryan Kalish and another arm?
by Randy Booth on Nov 11, 2008 2:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I like Bowden too much to make that trade…
by Randy Booth on Nov 11, 2008 3:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If we could trade Pauley and Kalish for Salty, we should just start walking on water…
by Randy Booth on Nov 11, 2008 3:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Pauley has no value.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Nov 11, 2008 3:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
See, I don’t agree with that. Yes, he’s not a true ‘prospect’ any more, but where do you think he’d slot in with the Rangers system? He’d be in their starting rotation. No doubt in my mind. That means he has to have some type of value.
by Randy Booth on Nov 11, 2008 3:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
In Texas, he'd be the #7 starter
:-)
Seriously, though, Pauley isn’t very good.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Nov 11, 2008 3:37 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
He spot started for us
and we have one of the best rotations in the Majors, while the Rangers have one of the worst. He is not a front of the rotation guy like Buch or Bowden but he would be a nice #4 starter
by drabidea on Nov 11, 2008 3:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He played in 9 games (5 starts)
in 2006 and 2008, due to injuries. He absolutely stunk: 9.53 ERA 2.29 WHIP 17.15 H/9. In no way was Pauley ever a serious option or the first guy called up to spot-start. Pauley, at best, is a #6 guy on a bad rotation (sort of like Fossum).
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Nov 11, 2008 3:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If only
all major league teams based talent on 9 games.
by drabidea on Nov 11, 2008 3:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
His minor league numbers are nothing special
In 987 innings, he has a 3.91 career ERA 1.34 WHIP.
Here are the career minor league stats of other fringe pitchers:
Zink – (892 IP) 4.05 ERA 1.41 WHIP
Hansack – (552.2 IP) 3.80 ERA 1.23 WHIP
Of the three, Hansack has the best K-rate (8.08/9). All have similar HR rates, and Zink walks the most. Hansack, a non-prospect, is probably the best of the three—and Pauley isn’t noticeably better than Zink, who isn’t really major league material.
Incidentally, Casey Fossum, a bad major league pitcher, was much better in the minors than Pauley. Here are Fossum’s career minor league stats:
(397.2 IP) 3.13 ERA 1.20 WHIP 9.27 K/9 0.45 HR/9
Just about every team has two or three David Pauleys in their system.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Nov 11, 2008 4:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No way Pauley could get it done
We would need to give them someone who has a chance of being a good major leaguer.
by BTLove on Nov 11, 2008 4:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed on pretty much everything
Pauley sucks, really. His stuff is actually funny.
Mother---- him and John Wayne!
by MerryGoByeBye on Nov 12, 2008 10:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Problem with Salty + Tek
Who catches for Wake?
by sgsox on Nov 11, 2008 1:48 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
The backstop
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Nov 11, 2008 1:50 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Logically.
Rec’d.
Although, I think that I know of three others who would like a chance. Opposing bats, the wind, and the ground.
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 11, 2008 5:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Still Cash
We carry three catchers for the time being. In a 5-start rotation, Tek catches 2-3, Salty catches 1-2, Cash catches 1 (Wake). It’s pretty obvious that Varitek can’t catch 4 out of 5 games. A couple extra games of rest will give him some rest and likely bring about some improvements in his game.
I think this is the best possible scenario
by Schulz on Nov 11, 2008 5:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
3 catchers is too much...
Carrying 3 catchers in the playoffs is one thing because you don’t need as many pitchers, but carrying 3 all season long would really limit our bench. If we get Salty, and keep Tek, one of them has to man up and catch the knuckle. If Tek is only catching 2 of every 5 games, he should be able to handle one of them being Wake (though that may be a waste of his “game-calling” abilities.)
by BTLove on Nov 11, 2008 6:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
True, but then we wouldn’t have to carry a Sean Casey type to spell Youk/Lowell because Salty could play 1st, so that works itself out
by Realistic on Nov 12, 2008 10:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I like it
Salty is versitile enough that he can play 1st base. That gives us the option of giving him more at bats if he needs it with out the pressure of being catcher.
by drabidea on Nov 12, 2008 10:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
He becomes our backup 1B in addition to being a C platoon. So if we have a 4-player bench its Cash, Saltamalaccia, Cora/infielder, Crisp/outfielder.
by Schulz on Nov 12, 2008 12:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Enough pop off the bench?
I was hoping this season we’d have somebody that can pinch hit, especially if we give Varitek any at bats. I think Salty as a hitter at 1B is barely replacement level. I just don’t like the idea that when Lowell gets hurt we’re playing 2 catchers. It would also eliminate any chance of bringing in Baldelli since he can’t be our only backup OFer.
We shouldn’t construct our roster around Tim Wakefield. Its just stupid.
by BTLove on Nov 12, 2008 1:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If Lowell goes on the DL
Bring up Bailey, Carter, or even Lars if he is ready.
Salty would only be used as a day off guy for Lowell or Youk, not for an extended period.
by drabidea on Nov 12, 2008 1:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Totally agree with BTLove
The Sox need to strengthen the bench. A power bat, preferably a right-handed hitter, would be nice. Salty isn’t a good enough hitter at 1B or DH, his two most likely positions.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Nov 12, 2008 1:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed on strengthing the bench
but I don’t think 1B is needed as much as a utility middle infielder is. Cora has aged and lost a step, Lugo can’t really be trusted with a baseball.
Lets not forget that Salty has a career minors OBP of .370 and OPS of .830. It is pretty apparent that he will be atleast league average, if not better. If for some reason he isn’t hitting at league average, you can always slide Lowrie over to 3rd and let the utility middle infielder get some swings in.
by drabidea on Nov 12, 2008 2:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
True
That is why I didn’t leave Cora and Crisp as the only possibilities for their respective positions. In fact, I don’t think either one will be with us come opening day. Cora is a FA, and the Sox will likely let him walk. I’m thinking Crisp will be traded to the White Sox, and be the speedy, CF, leadoff man with good D they’ve been looking for. Hopefully the return package would include Nick Swisher?
I’ve suggested a scenario like this one on another fanpost. Under this scenario, our bench would be Swisher (OF, 1B, DH); Cash ©; Salty (C, 1B); Lugo/Lowrie (3B, SS, 2B).
by Schulz on Nov 12, 2008 5:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I like this idea...
but the only thing that gives me pause is his defense in centerfield. He’s ok, but not great (RZR of .904 in ’08 and .878 in ’07), but would Tito feel comfortable with a big, slowish centerfielder? (I guess we put Wily Mo out there, so that answers that question.)
Its probably not much of an issue, because if someone does go on the DL we would immediately shuffle things around (like drabidea said) and bring up an extra OF or 1b. Even if someone is kinda injured (but not on the DL), we would send Cash down right away and bring up a useful player. So either way, we are going to need one of our top 2 catchers able to catch Wake.
by BTLove on Nov 12, 2008 5:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He doesn't have to play CF...
He could spell Bay in LF. How’s his arm? He could play RF if it’s strong enough.
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 12, 2008 5:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Cash has a copyright on his name?
Holy shit! Sorry Cash! Dammit, I did it again! How much do we owe… him?
Joking, I know that ( + C + ) = © in HTML
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 12, 2008 5:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Haha
yea, i saw that after i posted. I was gonna do something about it but i thought it looked cool
by Schulz on Nov 12, 2008 6:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We should start calling him:
Cash © Money â„¢
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 12, 2008 7:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not a fan of Salty
He appears to be a decent hitter who can’t catch. In my opinion, unless you hit like Mike Piazza did (or Posada), you are pretty useless as a catcher if you are below average defensively.
Salty is a project player, who may need a year or so in the minors to learn his craft. I’m not willing to trade a Bowden, Masterson, Ellsbury, or Buchholz for a player who may never be adequate behind the plate. The Sox don’t need a 1B/DH—and I’m not sure Salty hits sell enough to be a 1B/DH
As for Tek, bring him back if he’ll sign an inexpensive 1-2 year contract ($6 million or less). After the last 2.5 years he deserves a pay cut.
The problem with a Tek/Cash platoon is it has absolutely no upside. I’m intrigued by Dusty Brown, a very good defensive catcher who hit .290 AVG/.377 OBP/.471 SLG in Pawtucket last year. He is 26-years old, when most catchers begin their prime. His numbers compare with those of Kelly Shoppach, who would probably start on the Sox right now. A Brown/Tek platoon (assuming one could catch Wake) wouldn’t cost the Sox anything; it might be better than a Salty/Tek platoon, at least in the short-term; and it buys time for Luis Exposito, the Sox’ top catching prospect (currently in high A).
I’m not a big Varitek fan. But the Sox can still win with his anemic bat. Last year Boston was second in run-scoring, despite Tek’s bat and injuries to Papi, Lowell, and Drew.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Nov 11, 2008 1:48 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
I would not be willing to give up Bowden, Masterson, or Buchholz for Salty.
Agree on Tek only sign him back for 2 years at most and 6 mil per at most.
Even if we Trade for Salty I would love to see Brown get some action. He seems ready to me as well, I don’t know why Theo, Tito and company don’t have the confidence in him yet.
by drabidea on Nov 12, 2008 10:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Would this be a Garciaparra-type thing
That if he does come to Boston, then every kid would learn how to spell his name? Same with Teixeira.
Anyway, yes, trade for him, sending… who? Cash, money? Cash, the catcher? Tek will be lucky to get a double-digit contracts in terms of money. 53 million is ridiculous.
Well, I'll appreciate for you to keep my zingers outta your mouth!
by BoSox415 on Nov 11, 2008 2:08 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
No one can spell Buckles.
Manny ain't the only bad man.
by tommy.otm on Nov 11, 2008 7:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Reality is calling!
Do any of you Tek lovers hear it?? Tek is through, and he is not worth a cent, nevermind millions. The past is gone, over, caput, and the future is where you need to play and win. A washed up hitter and a washed up arm in a aging body is not worth this kind of discussion. Cut him loose and good riddens if he is too stupid to know when to retire. Get on with a youthful replacement, which is just called facing reality!
by NG on Nov 11, 2008 2:09 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
#2 catchers on all teams suck
If he’ll come back cheap, and accept a role as the #2, I’m fine with it. If not, let someone else pay him.
by BTLove on Nov 11, 2008 4:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
NG, just curious...
What profession do you work in?
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 11, 2008 5:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I should think
it would be pretty obvious…
[Just kidding, NG. We all love you. :) ]
"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.
by 0157H7 on Nov 11, 2008 10:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You can get payed for that?
I’ll do it in four years if I get to wear Mayan clothing and an anti- Wait, can’t go into politics.
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 12, 2008 4:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree...
with drugs. Salty has potential as a hitter, but it is rare (not impossible) to find catchers who turn themselves into good defensive catchers at this level. He is pretty awful right now, and we don’t need a project like that. I would almost be happier to trade for Shoppach than Salty at this stage despite the age and Ks. At leat Shoppach can field his position, and if Exposito comes along in 3 years, then great.
by Buzzy on Nov 11, 2008 2:11 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Good point.
I’d rather get Shoppach back. However, it would be hard to pry him back from the Indians who plan on playing him at C and moving Martinez to 1B at some point. But I think he’s got all the right tools to start within a year or two
by Schulz on Nov 11, 2008 5:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Sox need to wait
Seriously, what is the rush on this move. There are plenty of FA catchers as good or better than Tek. Plus San Fran wants to move Bengie Molina, who is an excellent defensive catcher who can hit well.
The player the Sox want is Teagarden, he is better than Salty. However, everyone needs to understand that Salty or Teagarden or Ramirez will cost either Buchholz or Bowden. Shoppach will cost less, all the Indians want is a “Closer” type MLB player.
As for Tek, Boras believes that the Sox MUST sign him, but that theory is going to be thrashed in the end.
by SoxAcumen on Nov 11, 2008 3:02 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Teagarden
Texas will not part with Teagarden, except if offered a crazy haul of pitching prospects.
by Buzzy on Nov 11, 2008 3:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They will ...
If Buchholz is in the trade. Buchholz > Teagarden.
by SoxAcumen on Nov 11, 2008 4:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Okay, Randy, just to make sure that no police officers searching this site understand...
You meant “Bear with me”, right? “Bare with me” would mean get undressed. THERE ARE MINORS READING THIS MAN!!! And I don’t mean Lars, Buch, Bowden, and Co.
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 11, 2008 4:55 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Kinda off topic, but my mom mentioned this...
Okay, first off, my mom is kinda obsessive over Varitek. I would imagine that there are several other women who agree with her, judging from the whistling when he comes up to bat, but that’s not the point.
She was reading one of the articles on the Sox’ web site about Tek and the rumors, when she came across a comment. It read something to the effect of: “Isn’t it weird that Tek started playing better once he and his wife seperated?”
Anyone think that Tek might do better now that he has what might have been a distraction out of the way?
PS: He’s supposedly with Heidi of NESN now. Sucks for the users who drooled over Heidi earlier this season.
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 11, 2008 5:44 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
See this:
http://www.overthemonster.com/2008/9/4/607370/heidi-watney-could-not-see#comments
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 11, 2008 5:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Or
Manny Hater
http://www.overthemonster.com/2008/7/14/571171/please-anyone-have-common
He just LOVES staring at his legs.
Well, I'll appreciate for you to keep my zingers outta your mouth!
by BoSox415 on Nov 11, 2008 5:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
True...
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 11, 2008 6:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i heard...
the reason the Sox got rid of Tina was her relationship with (married at the time) Tek. When he was catching D-Lowe, we had the ultimate adulterating duo.
by BTLove on Nov 11, 2008 6:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh snap.
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 11, 2008 6:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That sounds so badass
Mother---- him and John Wayne!
by MerryGoByeBye on Nov 12, 2008 10:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't forget O-Cab
He was a great homewrecker.
"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.
by SoxDevil on Nov 12, 2008 1:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Or his succesor:
Cptn. Crazy
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 12, 2008 4:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
As a Ranger fan...
I would easily do Salty+ something fairly significant for Buchholz. I would also do Teagarden+ something less significant for Buch. Bowden/Masterson I’m not really a fan of but I do put alot of value in Bard, thus since you guys know the Sox farm system better than I do, Bard+what would be fair for Salty?
by groundingout on Nov 12, 2008 3:40 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Salty + Davis
Whaddya say?
Mother---- him and John Wayne!
by MerryGoByeBye on Nov 12, 2008 10:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Farm system
If you know about all those guys including Bard, I’m impressed with your knowledge of the Sox farm system. I’m sorry to say I don’t know nearly as much about the Rangers’ except about their catching depth. What kind of player could we expect to come with Saltamalaccia in exchange for Buccholz
by Schulz on Nov 12, 2008 12:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Salty+ for Buch
I’d say Feliz/Holland wouldn’t be available in that deal but after that its debateable. Smoak isn’t tradeable so never mind him. I’d rather not do Salty+Andrus but if it came down to it I’d definitely have to think about it. After that I’d say one of Main/Perez/Borbon might work out. Too little? Too much?
by groundingout on Nov 12, 2008 4:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Huzzah for...
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 12, 2008 4:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hagadone/Tejeda?
No Hagadone in the to 20? I also figured Tejeda would be higher. I was thinking along the lines of a Salty for Bard/Hagadone/Tejeda deal.
by groundingout on Nov 12, 2008 6:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Eh...
Below average present power, but he’s still very young and he could fill out. Plate discipline could definitely use some improvement. Also struggles with off-speed stuff. Above average speed, but has yet to translate that into many stolen bases. Average glove at SS, decent range, and a strong arm that’s accurate but inconsistent. He makes most of his errors on off balance throws.
They compare him to Brandon Phillips, so maybe he’d be a good 2B. We don’t need him for a while, hopefully.
Hagadone is #21: http://www.soxprospects.com/moreprospects.htm
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 12, 2008 7:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hagadone had TJ this season
He’s a bit behind the time. He could be something, however.
Mother---- him and John Wayne!
by MerryGoByeBye on Nov 12, 2008 8:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Nov 12, 2008 8:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I hope Bard is untouchable. Guy is NASTY!
by Randy Booth on Nov 12, 2008 1:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
From what I've heard
His secondary pitches need work. Also, he is a relief pitcher and therefore much less valuable than Bowden or Buchholz, who project as starters.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Nov 12, 2008 1:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Bard
Ya I know that he is a reliever but I think he could be a pretty good late inning type guy.
by groundingout on Nov 12, 2008 4:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He throws 100 MPH likes it's nothing
I don’t think he should be untouchable, but I’d wait to see what he can do at ML level.
Mother---- him and John Wayne!
by MerryGoByeBye on Nov 12, 2008 8:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Forget Salty for Buch. Buch>>Salty as a prospect. Teagarden makes more sense, but I would hold on to Clay, his stuff is too good to trade for a project like Salty who I strongly doubt will ever make it as a catcher. I would trade Bard for the right price, however.
by Buzzy on Nov 12, 2008 12:22 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
+1
I couldn’t agree more.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Nov 12, 2008 1:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm.
Salty: May not be a long or short-term solution at catcher. Won’t hit enough to be an option over others at 1B (Youks, Tex?, Lars) or DH (Papi, Tex?, Lars?)
Teagarden: Good enough both ways that you have to think Buch would be the target for the Rangers. If you believe in Bowden and in Beckett bouncing back, some thought has to be given to this.
Shoppach: Cleveland may or may not stick with Victor Martinez at catcher, especially given that their two best hitting prospects (I think) are Beau Mills and Matt LaPorta, either of which might be a permanent resident at 1B. Cleveland wants a late-inning potential closer reliever. Masterson, Delcarmen, Bard are the names who could fit that requirement on our end. Have to think about it, and the non-Masterson’s might require a little more sweetener for Cleveland.
Martin: Apparently the Dodgers have seen reason and have been emphatically stating that he is not leaving. We’ll see.
Bryan Anderson: Not sure what St. Louis would want and whether he’d be on the block. Patient but with little power. Poor man’s Mauer?
Think about it, kids. Something about Dusty Brown gives the Sox serious pause about giving him ML playing time. Kottaras may be offense-only. Wagner may be defense-only. Exposito is two years away at best. Make a big move now, or go with Varitek for one or two years. And you have to think about making the big move: do we want to part with Buch, Bowden, or Masterson? Of course not. But you have to give up something of value to get something of value.
Oh, and no Salty for me. Thanks.
"Are you a real doctor, or a doctor like Dr. Pepper is a doctor?"
by Allen Chace on Nov 12, 2008 5:05 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I'd give up Buch now.
If he’d get us Teagarden at this point, take it.
If he gets worse, we pulled off one of the greatest steals in baseball history.
If he gets better, hurray for the Rangers. He pitches one day a week, two at the most. Teagarden would help us everygame in the future. We wouldn’t even have to worry about facing Buch that often. We’d play the Rangers at most 9 times in the regular season. If he became a shut-down pitcher, then we lose 2-3 of those games. One pitcher wouldn’t help them make the playoffs either.
The only reason I see for holding back on a Buch for Teagarden deal is painful to think about: The Rangers get crazy sadistic, swing Buch to the MFY along with one or two catching prospects and a shortstop prospect for AARP-Rod again, with the MFY paying 75% of his salary. Wait, that’s CRAZY unrealistic. PULL THE LEVER!
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 12, 2008 5:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Buccholz to Texas
It’s extremely hard for anybody to pitch well in Texas. It is the epitome of a hitter’s park. Therefore, Buccholz would likely put up numbers that are not as good as what he is capable of (whatever those may be). In that respect, Buccholz would perform poorly, making such a trade look good for us.
On the other had, he could win multiple Cy Young awards and make us look like fools.
by Schulz on Nov 12, 2008 6:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
See the 3rd ¶.
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 12, 2008 7:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh
I read that too fast. That would be heartbreaking if Buccholz dominated us pitching for the MFY someday
by Schulz on Nov 12, 2008 11:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I do live within a few miles of their offseason home...
Lower the drinking age + within a year of driving alone = Buch in danger
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 13, 2008 8:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Well said. You are likely correct about Brown. One thing we can say is that his defense is sound, and how could he hit worse then Tek? Ok, seriously, he did have a tempting improvement in AAA last year, and catchers often develop late. I only wish Exposito was a bit older than 21…;(.
by Buzzy on Nov 12, 2008 5:21 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Reply fail Buzzy?
Exposito could still rise up to the Majors and take the job. Eventually, give him a shot, allow him to play 1-2 games out of the 5 pitcher rotation. If one or the other shows that they are better by a large enough margin, trade the other to another team with a catching defecit.
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 12, 2008 5:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ah, spelling fail.
*deficit.
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 12, 2008 5:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My point was just that Exposito is not yet ready, but indeed looks to have the talent if we can judge someone at the A+ level and project this far away. Likely 3 years away, as I said all the way up somewhere. Brown likely is not what the Sox are looking for, but is 26 and more prepared.
by Buzzy on Nov 12, 2008 7:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm just saying, if he ends up being the better option down the road...
I’m sure that someone would be willing to take Teagarden (or another catching option) down the road.
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 12, 2008 7:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I wish this 'trade Buch' shit would just go away
Kid’s the best Sox pitching prospect since Clemens. It would have to be an insane player, like McCann or Martin. Other than that just keep him.
Mother---- him and John Wayne!
by MerryGoByeBye on Nov 12, 2008 8:19 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
+1
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Nov 12, 2008 8:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
As it will on
Ellsbury, Lowrie, Masterson, Bowden, and even Lester.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Nov 13, 2008 7:30 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Are we really gonna compare him to Clemens?
Has anyone established when he started with the PEDs?
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 13, 2008 8:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Carlos Santana
On the Indians. Sign Tex, then Lowell for Santana plus.
Jingo, jingo bah.
Manny ain't the only bad man.
by tommy.otm on Nov 13, 2008 2:11 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Hmm...
Strikes out a bit much for my taste, but other than that, he’s good:
http://minors.baseball-reference.com/players.cgi?pid=13002
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 13, 2008 8:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
198 career BBs, 200 career Ks.
Not too shabby for a 22 year old.
Manny ain't the only bad man.
by tommy.otm on Nov 13, 2008 11:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I meant in comparison for his number of ABs.
He’d learn plate discipline in our system I guess.
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 14, 2008 6:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Indians would make us pay a bunch of Lowell's remaining salary
by BTLove on Nov 14, 2008 7:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You act like we have a limit on the money we can spend.
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 15, 2008 2:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
JR House is a probably available for free
Sure JR House is a little older but his defense is about the same as Salty, his offense is very capable (at least in AAA) and he would cost nothing at all.
Not suggesting House for a starting role, but as a potential backup, I would love to see the Sox acquire him. The guy has had the unfortunate luck of being blocked at every stage of his young career (first when Jason Kendell was an All-Star, then with the O’s when Ramon Hernandez was an All-Star).
take a look at the guys numbers in AAA though.
If the cost for Salty or another backup catcher is far too high, I say go after JR House which in turn makes the Sox a lot less desperate for a backup catcher causing the price to go down a little.
Another out of box suggestion is to swap Lugo for Kenji Johjima. Both have terrible contracts and are poor hitters, but Johjima has some upside and the M’s obviously see Clement as their starting catcher.
by kangarooboxer on Nov 14, 2008 9:15 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I think the Mariners want to use Clement at 1B.
"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.
by SoxDevil on Nov 14, 2008 2:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

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