He's b-a-a-a-c-k! Should He Be?
by ccthemovieman on Oct 31, 2008 1:38 PM EDT
39 comments
According to the Boston Herald this morning - Friday (Halloween)- the Sox are expected to officially invite Tim Wakefield back. This will be his 15th year pitching for Boston.
From the article titled "Wakefield Set To Return," it states :
"Wakefield recently completed an end-of-year physical and MRI, the last hurdle before the Red Sox exercise their $4 million club option for 2009. His unique arrangement with the club, in a deal signed back in 2005, features an annual club option that, in theory, extends into perpetuity.
"Wakefield, 42, was 10-11 with a 4.13 ERA in 30 starts this season, the fifth time in the last six years he reached 30 starts. He has also won in double figures in six of the last seven seasons.
"Wakefield’s 2008 won-loss mark was somewhat deceptive, too. He had 18 quality starts, second only to John Lester five of those starts, he suffered losses because of poor run support.
"Wakefield holds the franchise record for most uninterrupted seasons for a Red Sox pitcher."
OTM readers: is this a good move, do you think?
Is Wakefield still worth having on the roster or would the Sox be better served with giving the slot to another young guy?
My take is that he pitched well enough last summer to be the number-five starter for the upcoming regular season (iF he can still produce as he did much of last season) , but, he's in the bullpen once the playoffs start.....no if, ands or buts.
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Good catch on this.
And my opinion is that it is a good move. I don’t think the Sox will go into next year’s playoff series with Wake as anything but the emergency starter for any of the rounds of the playoffs, should we get there. So $4M for a pretty reliable #5 is an easy move, in my book.
"Are you a real doctor, or a doctor like Dr. Pepper is a doctor?"
by Allen Chace on Oct 31, 2008 2:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Easy call
Mother---- him and John Wayne!
by MerryGoByeBye on Oct 31, 2008 3:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
Wakefield is a better than league average starter. At $4 million, he’s a steal.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Oct 31, 2008 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It's official.
According to Extra Bases.
I’ve already said why I’d like to see a change, but given how good Wake’s been the last few years, it’s hard to be angry about the move.
"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.
by 0157H7 on Oct 31, 2008 3:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
$4 million for either a league average SP that can be a bit explosive at times?
Or a long RP? I’d take it in a heartbeat.
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Oct 31, 2008 4:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
He’s cheap, he’s durable, and he’s a true Red Sox player. He’s a good player to have around to eat up innings, fill in for injured starters for an extended amount of time, or actually be the 5th starter.
Man do I hate Longhorn fans, well except for the ones that actually went there.
by mystman995 on Oct 31, 2008 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And the perpetual uber-cheap option is probably one of the most loyal contracts a player has ever agreed to.
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 1, 2008 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good move.
Anything to drive NG crazy.
Manny ain't the only bad man.
by tommy.otm on Nov 1, 2008 12:31 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
And it darn well will!
Wakefield in his current delapidated version is an embarrassment to major league baseball and its fans. It also sends the wrong message that the Sox are willing to actually lose voluntarily by keeping what is equivalent to a little league caliber pitcher. It is sometimes wrong to care for the elderly in their previous environment because nursing homes have their place when conditions get bad enough. Wakefield needs a baseball nursing home (also called retirement by some) because he has aged and his skills have degenerated that far. Just remember those last 3 of 4 starts and how embarrasssing it was to have this ancient guy out there for your team.
Well you get the message hopefully; although, some here are really adicted to the Wakefield coolaid, sad to say!!
by NG on Nov 1, 2008 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
IT'S KOOL-AID!!!!
I think Wake was at least a little tired/injured towards the end of the year, and he or the team kept it quiet. Hopefully he, and Tek, will be well rested for next season. Maybe have the backup (Cash or other) catch 2 pitchers instead of just Wake?
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 1, 2008 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes! judge pitchers on their lsat 3 or 4 starts! please!
the last 3 or 4 years mean nothing!
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
by Sky Kalkman on Nov 1, 2008 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
But he’s NG and we love him for his “Sky is falling” approach.
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 1, 2008 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
NG don't like old players
Ask him what he feels about Varitek…
Mother---- him and John Wayne!
by MerryGoByeBye on Nov 1, 2008 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
True.
There was another player he didn’t like too. I can’t remember who it is.
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 1, 2008 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My Sox hit list, as in getting rid of list is:
First tier:
LUGO, Wakefield, Varitek—In that order
Second tier:
Crisp.
So you see it is not all about age. The younger guys on the list are just too lousy for a top-notch major league team, but the older guys are NOW lousy due to age-related infirmity!
by NG on Nov 1, 2008 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No Timlin?
Manny ain't the only bad man.
by tommy.otm on Nov 1, 2008 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Poor Timmy.
Stick a fork in him. He’s done.
"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.
by SoxDevil on Nov 3, 2008 1:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Lugo is obvious, as is Coco.
I thought I remembered there being one other 35+ aged player you hated.
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 1, 2008 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Im new here but...
are you being serious? I mean Tim Wakefield (I think this is who we’re talking about) was well above league average last year (112 innings at 112 ERA+). Carlos Silva signed for 4/$48 mil after two straight years worse than that. Wake at $4mil is one of the best deals in baseball (not including pre-arbitration guys).
by BTLove on Nov 7, 2008 4:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Welcome, BTLove
NG hates Wakefield. Don’t try to reason with him. You’ll get nowhere.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Nov 7, 2008 5:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Also, he is the resident Chicken Little.
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 8, 2008 11:35 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Good move
Yeah, you’d like to get Masterson and Buchholz into the rotation, but you have to worry about how many innings they’ll both throw in 2009, and Buch didn’t look major league ready this year. Wake takes care of both those problems by eating up 150-200 innings of league average quality, and he does it at a bargain price.
Even if we don’t sign a free agent starter, I’d be comfortable with a rotation of Lester, Beckett, Matsuzaka, and two of Wake, Buch, and Masterson.
by RSNexile on Nov 1, 2008 8:53 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Actually we'd like Masterson to be a shutdown reliever who can give an inning a game or so.
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 1, 2008 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he's more valuable as a starter
and you’re overreacting to his results this year. sure, he didn’t give up many runs, but his peripherals were nothing to get all excited about.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
by Sky Kalkman on Nov 1, 2008 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not reacting to his results.
I’m reacting to his throwing motions. He will not be able to be a starting pitcher for long without arm issues.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p58DOkbNDwo
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 1, 2008 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
interesting.
I hadn’t heard that.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
by Sky Kalkman on Nov 1, 2008 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not so much heard as seen.
Lots of stress or so it would seem. If only www.pitchingclips.com would get back up?!?!?
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 1, 2008 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure on Masterson as a starter
I’m not looking at the numbers here because I’m too lazy to do that right now, but I think he had a hard time on the second time around a line-up. And his stuff work better coming from the pen.
Mother---- him and John Wayne!
by MerryGoByeBye on Nov 1, 2008 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And he hit a few too many people.
Better that he gets thrown out (if at all) later in the game when there would be someone else up in the pen already.
And he gets a lot of groundballs from what I remember (still not looking at stats either). That could help when coming in to the game in a pinch. And it would possibly remove Lopez, which is always a good thing. If we lose Lopez and Timlin, then our bullpen will most likely be much better.
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 1, 2008 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wrote about this topic a while back.
See here. His final stats didn’t change much in the last month. Basically, Masterson’s peripherals were better as a reliever and he was far less lucky (.289 BABIP relieving, which is normal; .216 starting, which is luckily low). That supports the idea that bsetc. raised – Masterson can throw better as a reliever.
Looking at his splits, Masterson was more prone to the long-ball (or double) in second plate appearances (PA).
1st PA .209 / .315 / .332
2nd PA .225 / .321 / .451
3rd PA .228 / .328 / .316
Otherwise there isn’t much difference.
"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.
by 0157H7 on Nov 1, 2008 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My god, the Internet/WWW is amazing.
Years ago, those stats would’ve taken years to collect, calculate, and distribute. [sits in awe]
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 1, 2008 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
.321 OBP in second PA?
God, far better than I remember. Even so, I still think he should relieve, like you said.
Mother---- him and John Wayne!
by MerryGoByeBye on Nov 1, 2008 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
what are he sample sizes?
because he seems to settle down the third time through…
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
by Sky Kalkman on Nov 1, 2008 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Logic:
First time: shock/surprise
Second time: Batter adv: discovers tendencies, tips from other batters, etc.
Third time: Pitcher adv: changes in response, extra tricks hidden for if-needed situations, etc.
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 1, 2008 8:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
nice story
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
by Sky Kalkman on Nov 2, 2008 3:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Okay, my logic.
Which is probably wrong, but it made sense to me.
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 2, 2008 4:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Very small.
This is only his first season, and with time split between relieving and starting, none of his sample sizes are large enough to be significant.
1st PA: 217 PA
2nd PA: 81 PA
3rd+ PA: 67 PA
"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.
by 0157H7 on Nov 1, 2008 9:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And your rotation doesn't include two other factors:
1) possible FA pickups/trades
2) BOWDEN, Zink, or another callup later in the year.
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Nov 1, 2008 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bargain
I would take 10 wins for 4 mil a year. It is a steal (see Zito, Barry) compared to him, and pretty much anyone in the majors. He is league average, and the way contracts keep goin up, 4 million will look even better. 5th starter or reliver.
Well, I'll appreciate for you to keep my zingers outta your mouth!
by BoSox415 on Nov 1, 2008 11:44 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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