Game 5 Postgame: Can you believe it?

by 0157H7 on Oct 17, 2008 12:53 AM EDT Comment 134 comments

With J.D. Drew's 9th inning double off JP Howell, the Boston Red Sox have completed the greatest comeback in ALCS elimination game history. They were down 7-0 to start the 7th inning.

Then Grant Balfour and Joe Maddon allowed the Sox to get back into the game. David Ortiz found his thunder at the best possible moment, stroking a three-run homer. 7-4.

Papelbon threw a shut-out top of the 8th, setting the stage for Jason Bay and Drew. Bay walked on four pitches from the shaky Wheeler, and Drew unloaded for a huge two-run homer. 7-6. Later, Coco "Clutch" Crisp drove in Mark Kotsay to tie it up. 7-7.

Justin Masterson got through the ninth, with a key double play turned by Pedroia off Carlos Pena's bat. Howell got the first two outs, and had Kevin Youkilis ground out to 3B. But Evan Longoria made a terrible low throw, which bounced into the stands, sending Youk to 2B. Bay was IBBed, setting the stage for the man of the hour - J.D. Drew.

Savor the moment, Sox fans. The bats are back. The sleeper has awakened. And we're coming for you, Tampa.

0 recs | Comment 134 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

"Then Scott Kazmir, Grant Balfour and Joe Maddon allowed the Sox to get back into the game. "

How did Kaz have anything to do with it?

by steve-o1285 on Oct 17, 2008 12:52 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Whoops. Will be changed.

"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.

by 0157H7 on Oct 17, 2008 12:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Give proper choking credit to Dan Wheeler.

by steve-o1285 on Oct 17, 2008 12:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm sorry.

But this was a team effort (or at the least, a bullpen, manager, and 3Bman effort). No one Ray will be singled out. And the Sox bats woke up at an opportune time, as well.

"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.

by 0157H7 on Oct 17, 2008 12:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh no

I’m not saying single him out, just making sure everybody gets their “credit”

by steve-o1285 on Oct 17, 2008 1:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He left.

Manny ain't the only bad man.

by tommy.otm on Oct 17, 2008 12:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kazmir had thrown 110 pitches. I think that you can say that he did his part. Balfour, Wheeler, and Howell have been overworked and overexposed. They didn’t mix fastballs with off-speed pitches effectively and the Red Sox made them pay.

Count me among those who thought that the Red Sox were dead and buried, down 7-0 mid 7th inning. But those Sox battled back and proved how capricious this game can be.

It’s good to see Papi with some mojo back in his bat.

"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.

by SoxDevil on Oct 17, 2008 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I was cracking wise.

Sort of like “What did Alexander the Great do to hurt the Greek Empire? He died.”

Manny ain't the only bad man.

by tommy.otm on Oct 17, 2008 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Who starts Game 6? Beckett or Lester?

Carlos and Victor Zambrano have exactly the same number of career postseason wins. Who would have thought?

by Blicks on Oct 17, 2008 12:56 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Tito said Beckett

by steve-o1285 on Oct 17, 2008 1:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think Lester should go. Use the best you’ve got in every elimination scenario.

"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.

by SoxDevil on Oct 17, 2008 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes, go with Lester

Other managers in the past “saved” their best guy for later……and later never came.

Win TONIGHT and worry later about tomrrow, or there won’t be a tomorrow. (That’s unless Beckett has made some miracle recovery that all of us don’t know about)

by ccthemovieman on Oct 18, 2008 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not going to pretend that I like the Red Sox...at all...

but congratulations you guys, that was utterly amazing.

And a series it is again…

by Omerta on Oct 17, 2008 12:56 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Wow. Hell of a game. Congratulations.

Tools Whore

Sign Bonds!

by Tyler on Oct 17, 2008 12:56 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I jinxed the Rays, I can't believe hahaha

And Kevin Millar, anyone? “Don’t let us win tonight”…

Mother---- him and John Wayne!

by MerryGoByeBye on Oct 17, 2008 12:57 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Also

I think i speak for everyone around here who’s a Sox fan: I just love this fucking team.

Mother---- him and John Wayne!

by MerryGoByeBye on Oct 17, 2008 1:03 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I can't watch anymore games ever.

I was WIPED from working late last night and then having to go in early this morning. I was asleep for the whole thing. I cannot watch anymore games this postseason.

Boo. on that, and boo to me. But go Sox!

"Are you a real doctor, or a doctor like Dr. Pepper is a doctor?"

by Allen Chace on Oct 17, 2008 1:12 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

For your amusement and enjoyment

I especially like how around the 7-8th inning we had a nearly 0% chance of winning. I also like how the win probability jumps from around 65% to 100% in the 9th. Good times.

"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.

by 0157H7 on Oct 17, 2008 1:29 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Source is fangraphs, obviously.

Link.

"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.

by 0157H7 on Oct 17, 2008 1:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I hope Wall St. follows suit.

These days the stock market looks like that chart turned upside down. But that’s a subject for another blog…

"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.

by SoxDevil on Oct 17, 2008 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Man, whatever happens from here we have to remember the sox have showed their heart with this game, and this series is far from over.

by spinz on Oct 17, 2008 1:31 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

second this

an amazing comeback from an amazing team, playing through injuries and naysayers…love these guys.

by 808BostonFan on Oct 17, 2008 2:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I called my girlfriend just before the 6th

I said ‘no more baseball this season, sweetheart, the Sox are dead’. I feel like such a quitter…

Mother---- him and John Wayne!

by MerryGoByeBye on Oct 17, 2008 1:34 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

i got home when the bottom of the 7th had started,7-0, and i just turned it off, next thing i know i turn around and its 7-6. Unreal.

by spinz on Oct 17, 2008 1:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I wondered about people who left early

You know someone did!

I openly wonder should we scorn them or be envious?

by SullyBaseball on Oct 17, 2008 4:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

My parents scored tickets to this game, and, unbelievably, stuck it out through thick and thin. Good on them! I’m jealous that they were there to see it.

"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.

by SoxDevil on Oct 17, 2008 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

My vote would be pitied.

I can understand why some fans might leave early, but the truth is you just can’t. As the fangraph above shows, the win was essentially a miracle. There was almost a 0% chance that the Red Sox would win, but they defied all odds.

"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.

by SoxDevil on Oct 17, 2008 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Coco Crisp

As Francona said, it was “his best at bat as a Red Sock”.

(I like that Francona uses “Red Sock” as the singular of Red Sox.)

Wow!

by RickD on Oct 17, 2008 2:43 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

START LESTER IN GAME 6

Please Francona

LISTEN TO ME

by SullyBaseball on Oct 17, 2008 4:16 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

+1

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Oct 17, 2008 7:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Then what?

Wake in Game 7?

If we’re going to win, Beckett and Lester are going to have a win a game each. Pitching them both on regular rest is our best shot.

If Beckett is done, so are we. There’s no other options.

Manny ain't the only bad man.

by tommy.otm on Oct 17, 2008 7:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

+1

by drabidea on Oct 17, 2008 9:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Use your best first.

We don’t have to worry about game 7 unless we win game 6.

"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.

by SoxDevil on Oct 17, 2008 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

We got to get to game 7

An All Hands on Deck game 7 with Beckett and Byrd I think is the answer.

I know Tito won’t do it, and frankly who the hell am I to question him.

It just would make me feel better

by SullyBaseball on Oct 17, 2008 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

What a game!

Un(effin’)believable. It was nice to have a lead-off hitter get on base three times. I guess Coco didn’t suck too much momentum.

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Oct 17, 2008 7:13 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Wow

I remember saying to a co-worker yesterday, “Never count ’em out. Look what they did with a 1-3 deficit against NY.” Now, if only some of this good fortune can rub off on my Patriots…

Blogger at SBNation's New England Patriots blog, Pats Pulpit

by MaPatsFan on Oct 17, 2008 7:23 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Except it was a 0-3 deficit

in 2004. Against Cleveland last year it was 1-3.

"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.

by 0157H7 on Oct 17, 2008 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It was 3-1 after Papi's walk off homer, technically.

Remember when we were kids and we mixed sodas together and called them "suicides"? It was OK though, because Dr. Pepper was always there.

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Oct 18, 2008 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I love how after Papi hit the homer to make it 7-4

everyone in the place knew we were going to win.

Manny ain't the only bad man.

by tommy.otm on Oct 17, 2008 7:53 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

WOW!!

morning all!!

I thought this was a joke when I saw the lead post!!

"You know," Girardi said, shrugging his shoulders, "it didn't work."

( Joe Girardi on pitching to Manny Ramirez with first base open)

by MassGal on Oct 17, 2008 8:21 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

And I thought

this game was to be 2008’s great miracle.

I’ve said this before, but I’m starting to develop a serene expectancy of the Red Sox coming back against apparently insurmountable odds. Pedroia has carried us for a long time in the absence of our heavyweights, and it’s a delight that Ortiz, Drew and co. stepped up last night. The reawakening of Ortiz is analogous to the team’s reawakening. I didn’t watch the game live, but I know that seeing him crank one out of the park would have given me cast-iron hope.

As Millar said, ’Don’t let us win one.’ The Rays did, and I wouldn’t be in their cleats for all the tea in China. Impossibly, even with our crocked lineup, and our injured post-season pitching monster, I feel we now have the edge.

"no1 has time to read your long comments, are you writing a book?"

by britsoxfan on Oct 17, 2008 8:48 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

As Millar said, ’Don’t let us win one.’

Did you ever hear golfers use the phrase, “Just one time” when attempting to make a long putt?? Whenever I her someone say this, I immediately ask them if that is what they really want the Allmighty force in the universe to grant. It is lke selling your soul for one good thing, but what about after that? Do you never make another putt again in your life?

Indeed, not just one!

by NG on Oct 17, 2008 9:14 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I quoted Millar's comment in this thread

I believe God, or whatever the fuck there is, loves the Sox and hates the Cubbies. :)

Mother---- him and John Wayne!

by MerryGoByeBye on Oct 17, 2008 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Uncork the momentum OR let the momentum flow!

The only way the Sox can pull this off again this year is by now utilizing this newly generated momentum to the fullest, and at all cost preventing momentum sucking/poisoning from taking over again. In that light, I propose I few momentum enhancing moves, with the biggest and most important one being to bench friggin inept Varitek! Yah, Yah, we owe him and I feel bad, but at this level at this moment, you must remove the major momentum sucker from the equation. It is an absolute imperative! If Francona does not do that, it should be his job, which should already be in jeopardy for starting Wakefield the other night, ERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!

Finally, the starting pitchers must be stellar, but watched closely. I would almost have a backup warmed up right from the first pitch, and I would pull anyone after 2 walks or 2 hits in an inning, period.

There are systemic ways to keep the momentum going, and I have just mentioned 2. Others??

by NG on Oct 17, 2008 9:29 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Kudos to Francona

I think Tito has already done some quasi-bold moves in an attempt to generate momentum for the Sox and squash it from the Rays. Ellsbury, benched (he could, in the end, turn out to be this year’s Dave Roberts off the bench). Papelbon, pitching in the 7th. You can’t say that Francona hasn’t done any managing this series.

I doubt Francona will be so bold as to pitch Lester in game 6, but if it’s clear that Beckett has nothing, maybe we’ll see him trot out to the bullpen to warm up? I love October baseball. Anything can and does happen!

"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.

by SoxDevil on Oct 17, 2008 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Start Lester, Tito

I agree with everyone who said that. Just start Lester, and let us see what happens in game 7. Let’s just get to game 7, and try to keep some of this (here it comes, wait for it) momentum by shutting ’em down.

Beckett vs. Shields these days is just too bad a matchup. But, then again, last season we knocked Sabathia and Carmona around.

Mother---- him and John Wayne!

by MerryGoByeBye on Oct 17, 2008 12:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Agreed 100%

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Oct 17, 2008 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I was at my high school's homecoming game last night, so I missed the first 6 innings.

We won, 20-13, on a goal line stand with a few minutes left. GREAT GAME, but the PA announcer was giving updates on the Rays-Sox game every once and a while, so basically I was getting laughed at and threatened for wearing a Sox hat to the game (which was a BlackOut, making my navy blue hat seem not that out of place). All I kept saying is “We did it last year, and we’ll do it again. NEVER SAY DIE!!!” I’m a pretty happy young man right now.

Remember when we were kids and we mixed sodas together and called them "suicides"? It was OK though, because Dr. Pepper was always there.

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Oct 17, 2008 12:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

How badly is FOX rooting for the Red Sox?

Anything to avoid the dreaded Philly/Tampa series

by SullyBaseball on Oct 17, 2008 1:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

R.J. Anderson is a nice guy

But he’s fucking scared. Check his “Just to Clear the Air” entry. That screams ‘oh fuck’ to whomever is reading. :)

Mother---- him and John Wayne!

by MerryGoByeBye on Oct 17, 2008 1:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I might have to go remind him of my comments that got me rebanned.

http://www.draysbay.com/2008/9/27/623289/9-27-tampa-bulls-96-64-vs#comments

You can’t be born clutch, you must learn it.

Remember when we were kids and we mixed sodas together and called them "suicides"? It was OK though, because Dr. Pepper was always there.

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Oct 17, 2008 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Are you kidding me?

by steve-o1285 on Oct 17, 2008 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kind of

Mother---- him and John Wayne!

by MerryGoByeBye on Oct 17, 2008 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

National Literacy programs are wasted on failed abortions such as yourself

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.

by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 17, 2008 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't know that it screams "oh fuck", but it definetly sounds like RJ is giving the Sox a better chance than before.

As he should be.

Remember when we were kids and we mixed sodas together and called them "suicides"? It was OK though, because Dr. Pepper was always there.

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Oct 17, 2008 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

What's wrong, sweetheart?

Your man ain’t around to keep you happy?

Mother---- him and John Wayne!

by MerryGoByeBye on Oct 17, 2008 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dude threw 6 shutout innings last night

My boy is doing just fine.

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.

by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 17, 2008 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Haha

Is it the first time in the season that Kazmir goes full 6, like, all 6 of them? You must be really happy, then.

Mother---- him and John Wayne!

by MerryGoByeBye on Oct 17, 2008 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He's had a few

I’d say his average innings per start is right in line with Daisuke Matsuzaka.

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.

by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 17, 2008 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Pretty close

Matsuzaka 5.8 IP/GS
Kazmir 5.6 IP/GS

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.

by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 17, 2008 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I guess that makes him the best lefty since Koufax…

by Buzzy on Oct 17, 2008 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

See below Scuzzy

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.

by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 17, 2008 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You just crossed the line. Again.

You really should leave now.

"no1 has time to read your long comments, are you writing a book?"

by britsoxfan on Oct 17, 2008 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

How did I cross a line?

If someone insults me or my friends I should stand by and take it? I am not sure how classless, cowardly, fairweather, arrogant when they’re winning d-bags take it, but I have honor and do not respond well to threats nor insults. I try to have a reasoned conversation for the most part backed up by facts, but there is no point in arguing logically to those that only appeal to emotion. It is assholes like you that make me hate every single one of your fanbase because they enable this behavior instead of saying, “Cut it out man you’re making us look bad.”

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.

by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 17, 2008 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

MGBB called your blogmate a nice guy, but made

a joke about how scared he was. It is obvious that he didn’t mean anything by his comments.

You retorted by calling him a “failed abortion”.

Now you’re calling me an “asshole” and talking about honour as if you’re about to reach for the duelling pistols. The inconsistency and hypocrisy are staggering.

It’s been stated in this thread and elsewhere that we are more than happy to have fans of opposition teams come here and talk about baseball.

Conversation over.

"no1 has time to read your long comments, are you writing a book?"

by britsoxfan on Oct 17, 2008 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

For it to be a joke somebody must find it funny.

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.

by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 17, 2008 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Meh

Is this your argument now? Really?

Mother---- him and John Wayne!

by MerryGoByeBye on Oct 17, 2008 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I found it funny

so your point is moot.

Should’nt you be over at the Rays site trying to convince yourself that James Shields will save the Rays from returning to their status as the biggest joke in the MLB?

by SoxAcumen on Oct 17, 2008 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Didn’t you once claim that Kazmir was the best lefty since Koufax? Doesn’t that place your IQ in the 70-80 range?

by Buzzy on Oct 17, 2008 2:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I think they have the same makeup and will have similar careers

Either was unhittable at times and struggled with control in their youth (which is where Kaz still is). I also think Kaz will have a relatively short career much like Koufax, but for the next half dozen years he will be one of the 3 best lefties in baseball in a time where offense has a significant advantage (Koufax played his entire career on a 15" mound, where Kaz, as all pitchers today, is on a 10" mound).

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.

by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 17, 2008 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

seriously

do you have any idea how dominating Sandy Koufax was when he pitched for the Dodgers?

Kazmir isnt the best Lefty in MLB today or the past 10 years.

I can name 3 lefties better than Kazmir in this time in baseball, easy:

CC Sabathia
Randy Johnson
Tom Glavine

S. Kazmir, bro you needs to stop and just hang out on your own site.

by SoxAcumen on Oct 17, 2008 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Johan.

Pettite.
Zito (before the wheels fell off)

Manny ain't the only bad man.

by tommy.otm on Oct 17, 2008 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

But I'll cede the point,

Kazmir = Koufax.

And

Baldelli = DiMaggio
Pena = Killebrew
Upton = Mays
Crawford = Brock
Shields = Walter Johnson

Am I missing anyone?

Manny ain't the only bad man.

by tommy.otm on Oct 17, 2008 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes, you forgot one

Jonny Gomes = Yogi Berra.

Mother---- him and John Wayne!

by MerryGoByeBye on Oct 17, 2008 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Javier Lopez

"no1 has time to read your long comments, are you writing a book?"

by britsoxfan on Oct 17, 2008 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Cole Hamels

by SoxAcumen on Oct 17, 2008 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Mark Buerle
John Danks

by SoxAcumen on Oct 17, 2008 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

LESTER

Remember when we were kids and we mixed sodas together and called them "suicides"? It was OK though, because Dr. Pepper was always there.

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Oct 17, 2008 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Shirley you're joking

Koufax was positively ordinary his first 6 seasons. His 6th season he was 24. Kazmir is 24 in his 5th season. So in one less season at the same age Kaz has roughly 30 innings more with exactly 100 more k’s, 73 less walks and 25 less runs.

Sandy Scotty
IP 691.7 722.3
k 683 783
bb 405 332
er 315 290
k/9 8.89 9.76
bb/9 5.27 4.14
era 4.1 3.61
k/bb 1.69 2.36

Kazmir is better in every category listed here. At no time have I said that Kaz is the greatest lefthander of the last 10 years. At no time have I said he is the best lefty today. I am merely comparing him to arguably the greatest left hander of all time and suggesting that Kazmir could/should have a very similar career. Keep in mind, as previously stated, Koufax was on a higher mound with a significant advantage. Lastly, after getting to see more of Cole Hamels over the last few weeks I think he might give Kazmir a run for his money and it should be fun to watch them both over the next half decade. Eat an entire bag of dicks you Boston D-bags.

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.

by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 18, 2008 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Enjoy being banned, you dumbfuck

Mother---- him and John Wayne!

by MerryGoByeBye on Oct 18, 2008 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This is why

Everyone’s going to hate Rays fans in 3 years. They’ve never had any reason to show their bad side; now that they finally do have reason, everyone sees that they’re complete morons.

So let me get this straight:
Because Koufax’s first few years were the worst of his career, and Kazmir beats those numbers out, Kazmir will improve proportionally to how Koufax did? God, get the fuck out of these boards until you Rays fans have something knowledgeable to say.

by Charger567 on Oct 18, 2008 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Winning breeds contempt as you well know.

Believe what you want I am not here to change minds, but this is how I feel. At 24 he is poised to be THE next great pitcher in the bigs. Lester has been very good this year, but his large uptick in innings does not bode well for next year or down the line. I wish him the best as I would rather see you guys try to stay out of 3rd next year. Toronto is going to be sick if they retain Burnett. The Yankees are the Yankees and may every team beat them. I would hardly consider myself a complete moron, but again think what you want. I’ve been following baseball for over 20 years and between observation and statistical analysis I think I know as much as the next guy.

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.

by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 18, 2008 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

"At 24 he is poised to be THE next great pitcher in the bigs"

He’s just not, and this is not even funny.

Mother---- him and John Wayne!

by MerryGoByeBye on Oct 18, 2008 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It would help if you had any basis for your negativity.

You invite people to come here and talk about baseball and then you just say they are wrong. We’ll see in 2-3 years. As for Lester I will take your not mentioning it as quiet agreement.

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.

by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 18, 2008 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes, we invite people to come hear to talk baseball.

You come throwing bombs, comparing people with differing opinions than you to aborted fetuses, then telling us all to “eat a bag of dicks.”

Maybe you’re a nice person in real life, and maybe your mom thinks you’re swell and maybe the guys at the bar admire your rapier wit. But on the internets you come across as a real fucking douchebag.

So kindly, fuck off.

Manny ain't the only bad man.

by tommy.otm on Oct 18, 2008 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No comment.

Remember when we were kids and we mixed sodas together and called them "suicides"? It was OK though, because Dr. Pepper was always there.

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Oct 18, 2008 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Insightful

That means a lot coming from you Tommy. Good luck to you guys tonight I hope it’s a great game.

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.

by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 18, 2008 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Lester just needs to adjust. This was his first full season.

Give him time.

Remember when we were kids and we mixed sodas together and called them "suicides"? It was OK though, because Dr. Pepper was always there.

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Oct 18, 2008 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Don't try to play the victim

We had good conversations about baseball with you, until you started calling us names and calling us all d-bags. Your thing about Kaz is silly, but it’s okay, we’re all homers. If you wanna stay to talk about baseball, then do. If you wanna stay to be an asshole, then go fuck yourself.

Lester is better than Kaz. Your argument about Kaz being as good as Koufax lies somewhere in between english speaking and unintelligent organic life.

Mother---- him and John Wayne!

by MerryGoByeBye on Oct 18, 2008 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It is an interesting comparison to say that Lester is better than Kazmir

As I’ve noted many times Lester had a very good season. I just want to see him do it more than once. He’s what about 70 innings over last year. Most statistical analysis has shown this as a huge red flag going forward as far as injuries go. I would rather see him succeed and stay healthy after getting over the c-word, but I will not be shocked if he spends at least a month on the DL next year. Kazmir has battled his own demons in the form of spotty command and, this year, not having his best pitch consistently. The guy we saw in game 5 is the real Kaz. He threw 38 sliders. That was a month earlier this year. On any given day he can go out and throw a 2 hitter with a bunch of K’s and work out of self-made jams when need be. Lester I have not seen as much so I am just going on numbers here. Statcorner’s tRA statistic is very good and they have Lester throwing a better year overall, but this was not a very good season for Kazmir IMO. The 2 prior years Kazmir was better than Lester this year, and he has shown that he can go out and do it year after year. Until Lester can do the same I will remain skeptical. Lester
Kazmir

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.

by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 18, 2008 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree Lester has had only one good season so far

But is was better than any single season Kazmir has had. Here’s a comparison of Lester this year with Kazmir’s best seasons:

GS – Lester 33 Kazmir 34 (2007)
IP – Lester 210.1 Kazmir 206.2 (2007)
CG – Lester 2 Kazmir 1 (2006) – that’s Kazmir’s only career CG
W – Lester 16 Kazmir 13 (2007)
K – Lester 152 Kazmir 239 (2007)
BB/9 – Lester 2.82 Kazmir 3.24 (2006) in 144.2 IP
ERA – Lester 3.21 Kazmir 3.24 (2006) in 144.2 IP
WHIP – Lester 1.27 Kazmir 1.27 (2008, 2006)
HR – Lester 14 Kazmir 12 (2005) in 186 IP
**Career ERA+ Lester 122 Kazmir 124

As for the jump in Lester’s innings, Shields went from 115.1 minor league innings in 2005 to 185.2 major/minor league innings in 2006. That’s about a 70-inning jump, and Shields hasn’t been injured.

The Sox FO is very careful with these things. They shut Buchholz down because of his innings cap last year, despite the fact that they needed bullpen help late in the season.

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Oct 18, 2008 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks for doing the gruntwork Drugs

Pretty similar guys by the numbers (using Scott’s best seasons) and good point on Shields. Do you see Lester boosting those k’s in the future without hurting his walks? His Babip looked pretty ok around .296 I think so that shouldn’t really come into play. He’s good and that’s why I hope we don’t see him again. I’m going to the bar no hard feelings guys somebody has to stir the pot a little.

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.

by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 18, 2008 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No hard feelings myself.

Just calling it as I sees it, douche.

: )

Manny ain't the only bad man.

by tommy.otm on Oct 18, 2008 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You can’t be serious. Kaz would not be in the top group of modern day lefties. Also, your revisionist BS as to what “best” means (e.g. he will, sometime in the future, be…, or that “best” means “one of the three best”…) is laughable. You are an arrogant piece of crap who is not nearly as smart as he thinks he is. One can tolerate you until you go over the line and start insulting others. Just go back to your vaseline and frosted hair Kaz posters.

by Buzzy on Oct 17, 2008 3:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Wow you're really taking offense to this. The irony is not lost on me,

but when I look in the mirror at least I’m pleased with what I see. Have fun being a jerkoff.

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.

by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 17, 2008 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You’re pleased with being an ignorant, arrogant asshole who has nothing better to do with his life than argue with people 1000 miles away who all find your arguments laughable? I don’t know how good you look, but if I were you, I’d have to look damn perfect to convince myself not to pull the trigger.

by Charger567 on Oct 18, 2008 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I take offense to you trolling on other sites and posting your arrogant, insulting crap. I am fine with you posting things about baseball, even if they are remarkably stupid (see above).

by Buzzy on Oct 17, 2008 3:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

If I were arrogant I would be trumpeting our lead at any point

or rubbing it in about the demolishing we gave you at your “ballpark”. I have done neither at any point over this series or any series. Out of respect to the 2-3 REAL Sox fans that I know I don’t bring up that sort of reality. Instead, I prefer to ask questions to get others point of view and end up having to defend myself to personal attacks.

Stupid is as stupid does. I could bring up Beckett being the “best pitcher in the history of post-season baseball” or how having Jason Bay over Manny Ramirez is in anyway smart, but I choose not to.

Try using the reply button, it is easier to follow.

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.

by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 17, 2008 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Douchy,
where on this site have you been personally attacked? Where on this (or any site) have I claimed “Beckett [as] being the ‘best pitcher in the history of post-season baseball’ or how having Jason Bay over Manny Ramirez is in anyway smart”? You might just have borderline personality disorder. Go away.

by Buzzy on Oct 17, 2008 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Read through this and you will see plenty of personal attacks as well as 2 in your most recent comment

It’s not exactly Where’s Waldo either. I’m done with it man you guys are all wankers.

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.

by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 17, 2008 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh boy. These personal attacks simply followed your insulting personal attacks, moron.
Indeed, I never posted about how stupid your “Kaz is the best lefty since Koufax” comment was months ago. Until one goes overboard it’s all good.

by Buzzy on Oct 17, 2008 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Okay, what the bloody hell is all this rubish?

(sorry britsoxfan, went a bit off me rocker there)

Each of you count to 10, and go sit in a corner. Bad fans.

Remember when we were kids and we mixed sodas together and called them "suicides"? It was OK though, because Dr. Pepper was always there.

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Oct 17, 2008 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Calling Fenway a "ballpark" is really, really silly coming from a Rays fan

Since you play at that piece of shit called Tropicana Field.

Mother---- him and John Wayne!

by MerryGoByeBye on Oct 17, 2008 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Don't feed the trolls, people.

"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.

by 0157H7 on Oct 17, 2008 5:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Sandy ain't a troll.

He’s a fun chewtoy.

DOGS RULE

Remember when we were kids and we mixed sodas together and called them "suicides"? It was OK though, because Dr. Pepper was always there.

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Oct 17, 2008 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Or, for those who love animals in general:

Remember when we were kids and we mixed sodas together and called them "suicides"? It was OK though, because Dr. Pepper was always there.

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Oct 17, 2008 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Awesome win last night

I see another comeback brewing if Beckett can at least give them 6 IP less then 4 Runs. Just like they have done in the past to the Indians and Yankees this is going to be fun.

I used to be an Indians fan but since moving to NH and marring a Red Sox fan and the stupid hatred the Indians fans have for the Sox, I am proud to say I am a full fledged Red Sox fan now.

Baseball is God's sport! All Truth Goes Through Three Stages 1.It is ridiculed 2.It is violently opposed 3.Finally, it is accepted as self-evident. kinesiologist

by E5 on Oct 17, 2008 6:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Welcome!!!

My family is in the process of converting a family friend, an Indian fan, to a Red Sox fan. Unfortunately, he and his family have jumped on the Rays bandwagon.

Remember when we were kids and we mixed sodas together and called them "suicides"? It was OK though, because Dr. Pepper was always there.

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Oct 17, 2008 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Just send that person to the Let's Go Tribe

blog site on SBN and if they have any slight feeling for the Sox then they will be Sox fans for life.

Baseball is God's sport! All Truth Goes Through Three Stages 1.It is ridiculed 2.It is violently opposed 3.Finally, it is accepted as self-evident. kinesiologist

by E5 on Oct 17, 2008 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Huh

I love how nearly every fanbase hates us. It fires the players up.

I remember you from last season, I think. Welcome around, man.

Mother---- him and John Wayne!

by MerryGoByeBye on Oct 17, 2008 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks

Red Sox fans on here a super intelligent and reasonable people unlike on LGT. I am very happy to be a Red Sox fan.

Baseball is God's sport! All Truth Goes Through Three Stages 1.It is ridiculed 2.It is violently opposed 3.Finally, it is accepted as self-evident. kinesiologist

by E5 on Oct 17, 2008 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

Rec'd

Sarcasm is hilarious.

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.

by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 18, 2008 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sandy

Go to LGT on SBN where your uninformed and blind hatred will be appreciated. You are not welcome here and you clearly have mental issues.

Baseball is God's sport! All Truth Goes Through Three Stages 1.It is ridiculed 2.It is violently opposed 3.Finally, it is accepted as self-evident. kinesiologist

by E5 on Oct 18, 2008 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

hilarious

So true MerryGoByeBye.

Read the Angel blog, they are still bitter and now have adopted the Rays. Now they are obsessing about Maddon and the Rays choking like the Angels.

by SoxAcumen on Oct 17, 2008 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Everyone wants the Rays to win

Not even a comeback like last night’s changes this in people. They do realize that the Sox are not built like the MFY were, so there’s really no reason to hate ’em, right?

Mother---- him and John Wayne!

by MerryGoByeBye on Oct 17, 2008 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Indians fans

Believe the Red Sox are the second coming of the MFY and some consider them worse which is beyond ridiculous.

Baseball is God's sport! All Truth Goes Through Three Stages 1.It is ridiculed 2.It is violently opposed 3.Finally, it is accepted as self-evident. kinesiologist

by E5 on Oct 17, 2008 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Fans of other teams hate the Sox because of their recent success

I think that’s natural. The MFY comparisons, on the other hand, are ridiculous. The Sox had the 4th highest payroll, over $70 million less than New York’s. The gap in salary between the #2 team (the Tigers) and the #11 team (the Braves) was roughly $38 million. The gap between the Sox payroll and the Tampa Bay Rays (#29 in MLB payroll) is roughly $90 million, only $20 million more than the gap between the MFY and Sox.

For all the Angels fan’s whining, they’ve bought quite a few players—Matthews, Vladdy, and Hunter, to name a few. If they hold onto Teixeira, it’s likely their payroll wil surpass Boston’s next year (as the Sox shed Manny’s, Tek’s, Schilling’s, and Timlin’s contracts). In fact, the Sox roster in the ALDS had a lower payroll than the Angels ALDS roster this year.

Boston’s ownership is nothing like the blowhard MFY owners. And Sox fans, even the annoying ones, do not have half the sense of entitlement that MFY fans have. How many times do you hear blowhard MFY supporters talk about pinstripes, their 26 rings, who is and isn’t a “true Yankee,” and similar crap. Sox fans never do that. If you just compare the NESN and YES broadcasts, the difference is obvious.

Also, if you compare the Sox fans reaction in last night’s game with the MFY fans in Game 7 of the 2004 ALCS you can see a very clear difference. Last night Boston fans were convinced their team would lose, despite the comebacks in ‘04 and ’07. Who could blame them? Their team was down 7-0 to a very good Tampa club. In ’04, the MFY were down by a similar deficit. When Pedro entered the game, MFY fans were convinced they would win and started chanting "Who’s Your Daddy?" while pounding the walls along the foul lines. They were convinced they were going to win just because they are the New York Yankees. MFY fans are a special breed.

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Oct 17, 2008 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Sox will be 6th in payroll in 09

IF they do not add another big FA. Angels and someone else will pass us in the offseason bc of Manny and Schilling coming off the books.

by SoxAcumen on Oct 17, 2008 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

There are people in America who believe the Noah’s Arc story, literally. Some people still believe in aliens coming to Roswell, NM.

When the Yankees go out and buy Teixeria, Burnett and Sabathia and still lose in the ALDS next season, people will remember why they hate the Yankees over all…

Ignorance is bliss.

by SoxAcumen on Oct 17, 2008 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hey, don't be hating on us good Christians.

A bit exaggerated, but still fundamentally true.

And aliens are fun!!! Jk, I don’t care.

Remember when we were kids and we mixed sodas together and called them "suicides"? It was OK though, because Dr. Pepper was always there.

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Oct 17, 2008 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You can still be a good Christian

and believe its impossible to have pairs of EVERY animal on a boat.

Aliens rock, but again the probability of an alien spacecraft making it to the outskirts of the Milky Way Galaxy to hang out with us is a little hard to believe…

MFY still are pure evil.

by SoxAcumen on Oct 17, 2008 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well, the evolution arguement would come in handy here.

I’ll be damned if I can’t use it. Oh well, I’ll go with God recreating animals that Noah couldn’t get, or creating new ones.

What if they aren’t from anywhere much closer to the center, say, our solar system? And what if they wore sneakers?

Remember when we were kids and we mixed sodas together and called them "suicides"? It was OK though, because Dr. Pepper was always there.

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Oct 17, 2008 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

"I’ll go with God recreating animals that Noah couldn’t get, or creating new ones."

God seems like a lazy dude, why couldn’t he recreate them all instead of giving a hard work to poor Noah?

Mother---- him and John Wayne!

by MerryGoByeBye on Oct 17, 2008 10:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Testing his faith?

Remember when we were kids and we mixed sodas together and called them "suicides"? It was OK though, because Dr. Pepper was always there.

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Oct 17, 2008 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Why not give him a woman, then?

And say, ‘if you fuck her, I fuck you’. I can’t think of a bigger test than that.

Mother---- him and John Wayne!

by MerryGoByeBye on Oct 17, 2008 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He had a woman, no name though.

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-mrsnoah.html

Remember when we were kids and we mixed sodas together and called them "suicides"? It was OK though, because Dr. Pepper was always there.

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Oct 17, 2008 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't think he does.

He’s also a Buckeye fan. We don’t even want to bring him near the Gators.

Remember when we were kids and we mixed sodas together and called them "suicides"? It was OK though, because Dr. Pepper was always there.

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Oct 17, 2008 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I am also a Buckeye fan

and that isn’t going to change. Let me talk to him about the benefits of being a Sox fan.

Baseball is God's sport! All Truth Goes Through Three Stages 1.It is ridiculed 2.It is violently opposed 3.Finally, it is accepted as self-evident. kinesiologist

by E5 on Oct 17, 2008 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Does it involve championships?

Remember when we were kids and we mixed sodas together and called them "suicides"? It was OK though, because Dr. Pepper was always there.

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Oct 17, 2008 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

"marring a Red Sox fan"

i don’t think that word means what you think it means.

: )

Manny ain't the only bad man.

by tommy.otm on Oct 17, 2008 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Actually I do

2 dictionary results for: marring
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) – Cite This Source – Share This
mar /mɑr/ Pronunciation Key – Show Spelled Pronunciation[mahr] Pronunciation Key – Show IPA Pronunciation
–verb (used with object), marred, mar·ring.
1. to damage or spoil to a certain extent; render less perfect, attractive, useful, etc.; impair or spoil: That billboard mars the view. The holiday was marred by bad weather.
2. to disfigure, deface, or scar: The scratch marred the table

What I meant to say was I married a Red Sox fan.

Baseball is God's sport! All Truth Goes Through Three Stages 1.It is ridiculed 2.It is violently opposed 3.Finally, it is accepted as self-evident. kinesiologist

by E5 on Oct 17, 2008 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs