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Around SBN: NFL Roundtable: Which Draft Pick Is Most Likely To Bust?

All right. So can we figure out where Coco will be playing now?

Also, any thoughts on Alex Cora's semi-absurd run-in with the law (Rotoworld sidebar)?

[Update] Rock the vote people. New poll in the right sidebar.

  • And Coco Crisp goes to the...
    Especially if Bobby Kielty signs with someone anyway, don't be surprised if the Sox continue to parrot the whole "we're fine going into the season with Coco on the roster", while simply waiting for opportunity to strike. There are several teams out there with currently unacceptable-barely acceptable CF situations, assuming those teams want to contend. The Sox could easily wait until certain teams wise up, or for an injury to occur.
    • Cubs: Felix Pie is the "incumbent" here, but that doesn't necessarily mean he does or should have a job...especially if they use him in another deal.
    • Reds: Have to think they're at least on the cusp of contention if everything breaks right. Jay Bruce may or may not be ready, and Ryan Freel probably fits better in his super-utility role.
    • Giants: Yes, I'm kidding about the "contending" part, but couldn't they use another CF/CF-type? Aaron Rowand, Dave Roberts, Randy Winn, Fred Lewis, and Rajai Davis just doesn't seem like enough depth at the position.
    • Padres: Are they really going to count on Jim Edmonds to start 140 games out there?
    • Rangers: Could make some sense if they feel like moving Hamilton to a corner would keep him healthier. On the other hand, given their decent but not great rotation, and health stalwarts Milton Bradley and Hamilton leading the pack in SLG%, they're probably not a Coco Crisp away, no matter how good his defense is.
    • Mariners: If this Bedard trade goes down, Ichiro is going to have a lot of ground to cover with Raul Ibanez and Brad Wilkerson on either side. They could be better off with Crisp somewhere in the mix, either full-time in CF, pushing Ichiro back to RF, or in an "offense/defense platoon" with either of the aforementioned corner OFs. Either way, he'd get more PT than in Boston.
    • White Sox: I could see ST causing them to wise up and realize that Nick Swisher isn't really a CF. OTOH, trading for Coco and putting him there could end up defeating the purpose of the Carlos Quentin trade or pushing Jermaine Dye to the bench. Could be a poor OF defensively, but at this point it's probably locked in barring injury.
    • A's: We've heard about Billy Beane's man-crush on Coco's defense. They're kind of in the same situation as the Rangers are in, however. Just not a Crisp away.
    • Angels: They're already spending like $25M on the CF position next season. What's a few more?

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Oakland
I would love a Crisp trade for Huston Street. The A's got Joey Devine a couple weeks ago, and if he works out well, they might not need Street--and considering it looks like Beane wants to have none of last year's players on his team this year, it might even happen.

.../wishful thinking

Anyway, about Cora--he drove drunk nine years ago and turned himself in on Wednesday morning, then was released later that day after forking over $20,000? (That's what it looks like from the four-paragraph piece in the Palm Beach Post.)

by Liza on Jan 31, 2008 10:01 PM EST reply actions  

Re: Oakland
I'm not even sure that's too crazy in terms of wishful thinking. I'm just worried about what we'd have to throw-in (and we would) to get Street for Crisp.

Yeah. The whole Cora thing is almost a non-story, but it's like. How can a guy who appears so hard-working and responsible let that kind of become an issue?

by Allen Chace on Jan 31, 2008 10:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Oakland
Crisp-Masterson for Street.
Manny Ramirez is a bad man

by tommy.otm on Jan 31, 2008 10:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Oakland
I like Masterson too much to like that much... Crisp-Bowden?

by Liza on Jan 31, 2008 11:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Oakland
I like Masterson, but I'd rather hang on to the 21 year old who still projects as a starter (and probably a #2 or #3) than the soon-to-be 23 year old whom every prospect expert sees as only a RP at the ML-level.

by Allen Chace on Jan 31, 2008 11:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Oakland
Masterson > Bowden in my opinion. But opinions are like something or other. Everyone's got one.

You might argue that Crisp and Street have similar value in a trade, given contract years, contract dollars, the fungibility of relivers, and so on.

In fact, you might even argue that Crisp is more valuable than Street. I would, and I think Street's great. Crisp is rather underrated, even around here.

Bottom 9th B:1 S:0 O:0 With Bill Mueller batting, Dave Roberts steals (1) 2nd base.

by britsoxfan on Feb 1, 2008 7:11 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: Oakland
I think Huston Street is worth more than Coco on the trade market. I just don't see that deal getting done. Nor do I think Street would be happy in Boston. He wouldn't close, and he might not even be the set-up man.
"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.

by SoxDevil on Feb 1, 2008 8:37 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: Oakland
I'm sure you're right, in so far as Street would probably fetch more. But I'm not convinced that's right.
Bottom 9th B:1 S:0 O:0 With Bill Mueller batting, Dave Roberts steals (1) 2nd base.

by britsoxfan on Feb 1, 2008 9:07 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: Oakland
I don't want to overstate it, but just wanted to make clear that Coco is not chopped liver.
Bottom 9th B:1 S:0 O:0 With Bill Mueller batting, Dave Roberts steals (1) 2nd base.

by britsoxfan on Feb 1, 2008 9:19 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: Oakland
I definitely agree. I'm a Crisp supporter/apologist compared to the average Red Sox fan.
"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.

by SoxDevil on Feb 1, 2008 10:28 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: All right. So can we figure out where
I'm going to guess Coco lands in Oakland.

Here's the thing: yes, Beane loves his prospects but Coco is a lot of value for his contract. I think Beane would swallow that for the type of production he could potentially get. I could see him giving up a prospect or two to bring Crisp in. His defense speaks for itself, but I think Beane would bank on his offense coming back to above-par.

I don't think Street is doable unless he's at the point in his career where he'll sacrifice the money and the saves for a shot at a World Series. I don't think he's there yet...

by Randy Booth on Jan 31, 2008 10:51 PM EST reply actions  

Re: All right. So can we figure out where
As much as Id love Street for Crisp, it would take more; and Street doesnt fit with Paps as closer.  I wish we could get Freel.

by Matzushocka on Jan 31, 2008 10:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: All right. So can we figure out where
I think Street would be a great set-up type, a righty to complement Okie as the eighth inning guy(s).

by Liza on Jan 31, 2008 10:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Nope
I think Coco will be traded elsewhere.
  • Twins: They still have value to offer beyond Santana. Craig Monroe is not the solution in CF. This seems the most likely scenario.
  • Phillies: slide Victorino back to RF and push Jenkins to the bench as a PH/4th OF.
  • Braves: Coco is better than Kotsay.
  • Cardinals: Rick Ankiel in center? Ludwick is your RF?
Unlikelies:
  • Padres: Push Edmonds to LF. Bench Hairston.
  • Orioles: Push Jay Payton to LF and rotate Luke Scott as a 4th OF. AL East foe.
  • Rays: Rocco Baldelli goes down with a hammy injury in Spring Training and the Rays need another OF. AL East foe.
"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.

by SoxDevil on Feb 1, 2008 8:49 AM EST reply actions  

Red Sox Acquire Sean Casey

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3225795

Seems like a great pickup. Doesn't have the power he used too but a good left handed back up. The price is nice too.

Last years numbers.

.296/.353/.393 HR 4 RBI

by drabidea on Feb 1, 2008 12:38 PM EST reply actions  

Re: Red Sox Acquire Sean Casey
Sorry it got cut off for some reason

RBI 54

by drabidea on Feb 1, 2008 12:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Coco's future?
Felix Pie is pretty much as good as Crisp already, and he has huge potential.  The Cubs don't need Crisp.

The Reds have the best centerfield prospect in baseball.  In fact, he's the best prospect in baseball, period.  Jay Bruce is to Jacoby Ellsbury what Clay Buchholz is to Ian Kennedy.  We're getting rid of Crisp because we have a better, cheaper option.  The Reds have a MUCH better option.  The Reds don't need Crisp.

The Giants signed a big deal for a centerfielder.  They don't need Crisp.

The Padres just traded for Jim Edmonds.  They won't want to trade for TWO centerfielders in the same offseason, so all we could get from them is backup grade talent.  Do we really want Hiram Boccacia?

He might make some sense for the Rangers, but I think they like Hamilton at center.  Crisp's bat does not play for a corner outfielder.  So I'm not sure what we could get from them.

The Mariners just signed an outfielder and they have one of the premier centerfielders in the game.  How much are we really going to get for a fourth-outfielder?  I don't think they make sense.

Nick Swisher is a fine CF.  I've watched him play a lot, and while he's not the best CF in the game, he's certainly good enough.  However, they have Jerry Owens, Jermaine Dye, and Carlos Quentin, which makes the outfield pretty crowded.  Plus they've got no farm system.  What could we even get from them?

I know Beane likes Crisp, but he's rebuilding.  I can't see him parting with anything valuable without getting long-term help.

I can't see really see any teams as good fits for Crisp.  I think Crisp is destined to be a 4th outfielder until:

a) someone on the Sox goes down
b) someone on another contender goes down and they really, really need a centerfielder.  (Maybe Edmonds and the Pads?)
c) free agency a few years from now

Maybe the Twins decide they want to make a go of it?  Maybe the Phils get nervous about Bourne/Jenkins (although is Crisp really that much of an upgrade?).  Maybe the Braves decide that Kotsay was a bad move (but then, why did they make it in the first place?)

With Manny and Drew likely to get hurt and Ellsbury sure to experience some growing pains, I think we're probably best served holding on to him.

Boo Damon. Cheer Bonds.

by illgamesh on Feb 1, 2008 4:29 PM EST reply actions  

Re: Coco's future?
Felix Pie is not as good at Coco Crisp. At least not yet. In 177 at bats in the majors (small sample, sure), he's hit an OPS of .604. Coco's superior in the field. (Of course, Pie's all about potential, though I don't necessarily buy into the hype.)
Bottom 9th B:1 S:0 O:0 With Bill Mueller batting, Dave Roberts steals (1) 2nd base.

by britsoxfan on Feb 1, 2008 4:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Coco's future?
Excellent rebuttals. Some just kind of kill my ideas, though i was trying to make as inclusive a list as possible.

However:

The M's would probably (if they get Bedard), be well-served defensively to pick up Coco.  Like I said above, you can move Ichiro back to RF, or at least have a good defensive option with Wilkerson and Ibanez at the corners. And it'd be a better situation for Coco. He's much more likely to push for ABs/PT over those two than he is to get ABs over our OF (barring injury, of course).

I see the Padres as maybe the most likely option, despite already having traded for a not-cheap CF. I think Edmonds is held together by rubber bands and krazy glue at this point.

And like I said, I don't think it's out of the question that the Rangers think they can keep Hamilton healthier if he plays a corner. He missed a good chunk of games last season for the Reds.

Speaking of the Reds, I meant no slight to Jay Bruce, but he's played 0 ML innings thusfar and will be just 21 on/near opening day. The idea that, especially if Bruce isn't the convincing front-runner in ST, the Reds might want to pick up someone to play CF rather than run Freel out there every day isn't terribly far-fetched.

And I for one do want Hiram Bocachica. Can't just hand Jonathan Van Every the September PR/defensive caddy for Manny job without some healthy competition.

by Allen Chace on Feb 2, 2008 1:29 AM EST up reply actions  

Bruce
I read sme one (Keith Law mayeb) who thinks Bruce is better suited for RF.
Manny Ramirez is a bad man

by tommy.otm on Feb 2, 2008 11:40 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: Bruce
I think it was Law. I'm guessing he just thinks his body will fill out a bit more in a few years. Could see Bruce playing CF his first few seasons and then moving to a corner afterwards. His offensive game should play well anywhere.

by Allen Chace on Feb 2, 2008 12:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Coco's future?
Bourne was traded to Houston in the Lidge deal, FYI.
"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.

by SoxDevil on Feb 4, 2008 9:23 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: Coco's future?
Good call.  Forgot about that.
Boo Damon. Cheer Bonds.

by illgamesh on Feb 5, 2008 1:20 AM EST up reply actions  

Pie IS better
Crisp had an OPS of .712.  Pie's AAA OPS last year was .973.  Pie's got real power potential.  Why in the hell would the Cubs block him with a good glove no bat outfielder?
Boo Damon. Cheer Bonds.

by illgamesh on Feb 1, 2008 10:13 PM EST reply actions  

Re: Pie IS better
There are many arguments as to why Pie is better than Coco, or at least potentially better, but citing minor vs major league OPS doesn't cut it. Coco, right now, is at least an average major league CF.
Bottom 9th B:1 S:0 O:0 With Bill Mueller batting, Dave Roberts steals (1) 2nd base.

by britsoxfan on Feb 3, 2008 3:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Pie IS better
Why would you give up on pie for breakfast cereal? Pie is obviously far superior. Personally, I prefer pumpkin.

Croutons anyone?

"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.

by SoxDevil on Feb 4, 2008 9:25 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: Pie IS better
But not in soup. WTF is that S.

by Allen Chace on Feb 4, 2008 10:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Pie IS better
Croutons are an essential part of French Onion soup.
"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.

by SoxDevil on Feb 5, 2008 1:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Pie vs. oCoC
I was just using the OPS thing to show that Pie had mastered the minor leagues enough, and that Coco's bat was barely major league adequate.  It doesn't seem unlikely that given a full season of at-bats, Pie would be able to be at least on Coco's level with a bat.  And quite possibly much, much better.
Boo Damon. Cheer Bonds.

by illgamesh on Feb 5, 2008 1:34 AM EST reply actions  

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