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The Mitchell Report

[editor's note, by Randy Booth] Let's consider this an open thread: If you want to chat up the Mitchell Report, let's do it in this thread. I will definitely be watching ESPN as well as keeping an eye here to inject/read some opinion.

The Mitchell Report is scheduled to be released at 2:00pm EST today. The report is now expected to include between 60-80 names of former and current ballplayers, includes MVPs and All-Stars, and expose baseball's "serious drug culture." It's unclear how substantial the evidence will be against those players, but the Report is said to include 304 pages plus exhibits.

One source said that while the report will cite problems "top to bottom," it also will expose "deep problems, the number of players, high-level MVPs and All-Stars," as well as clubhouse personnel who allowed steroids and other banned substances in clubhouses or knew about it and didn't say anything.
-CNN

Consider me not surprised.

[update, by SoxDevil:] Now that the report has been released, I've removed the unsubstantiated list for the time being. More news to follow!

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Re: The Mitchell Report
Clemens is in. Good.

by leberquesgue on Dec 13, 2007 11:11 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Mitchell Report
Word is it will be a bad day for the Yankees in general.
This gets attached to your comments. Limit 160 characters.

by Hughie Jennings on Dec 13, 2007 11:22 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Jeter?
drool...
Manny Ramirez is a bad man

by tommy.otm on Dec 13, 2007 11:45 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Jeter?
Don't count on it.

But Veritek, Vaughn, Damon, Garciaparra and Trot Nixon will be on the list.  

by docgonzo on Dec 13, 2007 11:48 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Damon?
Really? I have to think that if he were juicing he'd throw better than my dead grandmother.
Manny Ramirez is a bad man

by tommy.otm on Dec 13, 2007 11:53 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry Nana
Bad taste.
Manny Ramirez is a bad man

by tommy.otm on Dec 13, 2007 11:56 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Damon?
There's an unofficial list floating around.  Take it with a grain of salt:

Yankees (both current and former):

Clemens
Pettitte
Giambi
Farnsworth
Sheffield
Damon
Grimsley
Mondesi

Red Sox:

Varitek
Garciaparra
Mo Vaughn
Trot Nixon
Tavarez
Carl Everett
Rich Garces

by docgonzo on Dec 13, 2007 12:18 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Everett?
That's impossible.

(joking)

Manny Ramirez is a bad man

by tommy.otm on Dec 13, 2007 12:45 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Damon?
I've seen this list as well. Gotta' add Paxton Crawford to the Sox names.

by Randy Booth on Dec 13, 2007 12:54 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Damon?
Also, if Varitek and Trot are true ... :(

by Randy Booth on Dec 13, 2007 12:54 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Trot
I have no doubt about Trot. I kind of figured Tek used, I'm more sad that he got caught.

But no Papi, no Manny, no Pedro, no Curt, no Lowell. That's a positive.

Manny Ramirez is a bad man

by tommy.otm on Dec 13, 2007 1:01 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Trot
Especially on the first 3, we agree. Papi, Manny, or Pedro would have been a blow to recent Red Sox history.
"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.

by SoxDevil on Dec 13, 2007 1:18 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Trot
Given the "Curt faked bleeding through his soutures" accusation, and his steroid denials in the past, I'm sure we'd never hear the end about Curt.
Manny Ramirez is a bad man

by tommy.otm on Dec 13, 2007 1:21 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Curt
True, but given Curt's evolution as a pitcher it does not appear as though he's taking any sort of enhancers.
"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.

by SoxDevil on Dec 13, 2007 1:36 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Damon?
Keeping this bogus list alive is a discredit to those named but not in the Mitchell report.  It should be removed!

by MJMcC on Dec 13, 2007 11:56 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yanks...
From ESPN -
Also, The Bergen (N.J.) Record, citing a baseball industry official, says "several" prominent Yankees will be named in the Mitchell report. The paper said the source spoke to a third party who had seen the final report.

"It's going to be a rough day in the Bronx," the paper quoted the source as saying.

"Several" prominent Yankees? We've heard Roger and Pettite, but they're two, not "several". Jorge?

Manny Ramirez is a bad man

by tommy.otm on Dec 13, 2007 12:05 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Mitchell Report
I'm not surprised that he's a user. But I am surprised that MLB didn't scrub him out of there.

Ah well, still a first ballot HOFer.

Manny Ramirez is a bad man

by tommy.otm on Dec 13, 2007 11:45 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Mitchell Report
ESPN is reporting that Clemens and Pettite will be included in the report.  I assume Giambi will be in as well.  Think any other Yankees will be on the list? A-Rod maybe?

And don't be so sure about the first ballot HoF.  McGuire should have been in, except for the steroid controversy surrounding his name.  If there is proof Clemens was using, I doubt he'll receive the necessary 75% to get in.

Also, I'm crossing my fingers that no Red Sox players will be in the report... knock on wood.

by Schulz on Dec 13, 2007 11:51 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Mitchell Report
But Clemens was a first ballot HOF before he joined the Yanks (and reports are saying that it was the Yanks trainer who supplied him, or at least that the commissions evidence...). McGwire wasn't a HOFer before he got noticeably bigger.
Manny Ramirez is a bad man

by tommy.otm on Dec 13, 2007 11:56 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Clemens HOF?
Reports are that Fat Roger started shooting up in Toronto, when he rededicated himself to "fitness" after eating his way out of Boston.  If that's true, 4 of his Cy Youngs are suspect (I never thought his MFY award was justified). He also has 162 post-Boston wins.  If Fatso was in the "twilight of his career" in 1996 and only played a few more years before retiring, he might get into the HOF.  But there's no way he would have been a lock to get in on the first ballot.

Somewhere Dan Duquette is smiling.  Although I never liked himn as GM, he has been vindicated.

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Dec 13, 2007 6:06 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Mitchell Report
Given Mitchell's ties to the Sox, I think there almost has to be at least one Red Sox player listed if the report is going to be taken seriously.  If there isn't, there are going to be claims of bias, regardless whether they're true.

by argo0 on Dec 13, 2007 12:10 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Mitchell Report
Clearly, Pokey Reese was juicing. I once saw him hit 2 home runs in a single game. And one was an inside-the-park-er.
"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.

by SoxDevil on Dec 13, 2007 12:13 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Mitchell Report
And he always had that nasty "roid rage" look about him.
Manny Ramirez is a bad man

by tommy.otm on Dec 13, 2007 12:15 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Red Sox in the report
Didn't Manny Alexander get busted some years ago? I wonder if a source came out of there who will point fingers at other Sox from that era...
Manny Ramirez is a bad man

by tommy.otm on Dec 13, 2007 12:17 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Mitchell Report
  It is not good that Clemens is in it, as much as it is sad that Major League Baseball and the Players Union refused to do anything for so many years or deny the problem.  They should had put WADA/IOC standards in place right after the strike.  Now all the records made during this era will have an asterisk with "Steroid/HGH era" like how the records during the live ball or pitchers during the spitball era are forever marked.

  Some of the names like Garciaparra and Damon make sense, given some of their injuries..

Varitek's name on the list is going to put a damper on his patina in New England.

by superferret on Dec 13, 2007 1:10 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Mitchell Report
Did I miss something? When I read the list, Damon, Tek, and Nomar were not on it...

by Schulz on Dec 13, 2007 7:45 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Mitchell Report
There was a fake list floating around earlier, grabbing some big headlines at MSNBC and other places.
Manny Ramirez is a bad man

by tommy.otm on Dec 13, 2007 8:34 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Mitchell Report
Gotcha. BTW, I read some pages of the report. Pretty scandalous stuff- especially the sections about Clemens and Petitte- two players I had a lot of respect for.  How they got that trainer and his PED source to come forward with that information is beyond me.

by Schulz on Dec 13, 2007 9:15 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

They gave him immunity
Manny Ramirez is a bad man

by tommy.otm on Dec 13, 2007 9:21 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Mitchell Report
 My Bad.  I read the WNBC report that was circulating and it just appeal my speculation sense of Nomar's injuries in the past years, but I was wrong and jumped the gun before the Mitchell Report was released

by superferret on Dec 13, 2007 10:34 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Pujols!!!
Wow. So much for those Ted Williams comps that were thrown around for a couple years...
Manny Ramirez is a bad man

by tommy.otm on Dec 13, 2007 1:05 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Pujols!!!
He wasn't named.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Dec 13, 2007 6:07 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Doh.
Manny Ramirez is a bad man

by tommy.otm on Dec 13, 2007 7:19 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Mitchell Report
They can make all the lists they want, but until they start banning players FOR LIFE (and mean it) then all this PR is just that - PR.

Sign me,

Old Enough to Remember How Many "Lifetime" bans given to Steve Howe.

This whole investigation is a sham.

BC14

by BC14 on Dec 13, 2007 1:09 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Mitchell Report
  They can't ban players for life, because technically it was allowed until 2004/2005, and the players didn't have to follow any rules or policies put in place.  If the MLB is serious, they will implement WADA/IOC guidelines, with drug courts, appeals and WADA standards for lab testing.

  As much as MLB turned a blind eye to this problem for years, especially when they were still touchy about the 1994 strike and lost revenue.  The Players Assoc/Players Union was just as bad to worse about confronting this issue or blocking any sort of sane controls in place

by superferret on Dec 13, 2007 1:36 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Mitchell Report
Now baseball is awash in cash. All parties involved should take serious steps forward to reassert their credibility and ensure that this sort of thing will never taint the game again, or other such ridiculous, blanket statements.
"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.

by SoxDevil on Dec 13, 2007 1:39 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Mitchell Report
  1. There's so much attention being paid to who's on the list or not, when really that's not really the point.  Not only do the names that Mitchell revealed come from only four primary sources, but it keeps our focus on the past rather than the future.
  2. Too many people haven't done their homework on Mitchell and his relationship to the Sox.  I agree with those who say that his connection puts some shadow on the credibility of his report, but to say, as one post does, that "he's got a ton of money invested in the Red Sox" when in fact his Director position was non-voting (& non-equity) is irresponsible.  Certainly the E-mails that he collected and reported from the Sox (regarding Gagne and Donnelly) aren't the sign of kid glove treatment.
  3. While the Mitchell Report, like all such productions, has a high quotient of CYA PR to it, the recommendations section was constructive (if not all that novel).  The need to get an independent authority in charge of testing -- as in cycling -- is vital. I was also intrigued to learn how much worse MLB has been in informing players about steroid issues in contrast to their very strong push against gambling.

by MJMcC on Dec 14, 2007 12:04 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Mitchell Report
i see ii exactly like that too.

by OilCanBoyd on Dec 13, 2007 3:05 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Some big names mentioned
Albert Belle
Bichette
Caminiti
Dykstra
Bagwell
Pujols

Jeez.

"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.

by SoxDevil on Dec 13, 2007 1:16 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Some big names mentioned
Bagwell and Pujols were not on the list either (re: my above post).

Why are people comming up with these names that I do not see on the list given at mlb.com?
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071213&content_id=2325070&vkey=news_mlb&fext=. jsp&c_id=mlb

by Schulz on Dec 13, 2007 7:48 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Mitchell Report
I knew this would be a large list.  Yeah Tek does hurt but you know for me as long as Manny and Papi are not on the list, and Vlady as well I always love that guy, I am happy.

It shows that our core players in 04 and 07 were not cheaters.  Manny, Papi, Schill, Pedro, Beckett, Lowell all are people kids and fans can look up too.

Shouldnt people start focusing on how awesome Pedro Martinez and Schilling were as pitchers to be dominant in this period of baseball without using steroids.  Or how great a pair of hitters Manny and Papi truly are.

by SoxAcumen on Dec 13, 2007 1:41 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Mitchell Report
Mark Prior non-tendered, the day before his name appears in the Mitchell report.

Think he'd be willing to pitch in the 'pen?

Manny Ramirez is a bad man

by tommy.otm on Dec 13, 2007 1:41 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Mitchell Report
The Padres will offer to him.  He wants to play in So Cal.

by SoxAcumen on Dec 13, 2007 1:46 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Mitchell Report
uhh that list is fake, for one thing it has troy glaus's name twice.

by spinz on Dec 13, 2007 1:48 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Mitchell Report
Maybe he got busted twice?

by RSNexile on Dec 13, 2007 2:19 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

hah
by that logic names like bonds and conseco should be on there about 6 times.

by spinz on Dec 13, 2007 2:26 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: hah
Canseco is there twice. Granted, it's both Jose and Ozzie...

by RSNexile on Dec 13, 2007 5:26 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Mitchell Report
Being the resident A-Rod hater, I must give him his due.  Wow, I thought the one guy who would definately be on this list is A-Rod.

A-Rod is just that damn good.  He is a freak of nature.

by SoxAcumen on Dec 13, 2007 1:48 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I love
how everyone here is all giddy about Clemens and Pettitte, and the possibility of A-Rod being named.  But when your beloved 'Tek gets mentioned, suddenly everyone's sad.

Can't you all see how screwed up this whole thing is?  No evidence or corroboration in this so-called investigation - just rumor and hearsay.  As a Yankee fan, I wouldn't be jumping for joy even if Fat Papi was mentioned.  The whole thing is disgusting.

by docgonzo on Dec 13, 2007 1:58 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Re: I love
I just said two up that A-Rod should be commended for not being a cheater and being that freakin insane at the plate.

Tek is an embarrassment.  I am just happy Manny and Papi are not on the list, and Pedro and Schill, thats all.

"rumor and hearsay"  LoL, I think ill read the report before I make that opinion.

by SoxAcumen on Dec 13, 2007 2:19 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I love
I never thought I'd agree with a Yankees fan here, but you're right.

Let's wait until the evidence is actually made public before we start celebrating or mourning anything -- other than that it's really screwed up that this whole situation was allowed to happen in the first place.

by RSNexile on Dec 13, 2007 2:21 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I love
MLBPA should take a large amount of blame for allowing this situation to get this bad...

by SoxAcumen on Dec 13, 2007 2:28 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I love
What about the managers, owners, and Commissioner who KNEW that this was going on and did nothing about it?

by 0157H7 on Dec 13, 2007 2:40 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I love
I agree with the owners and commissioner, but the managers get paid to manage the games, its not their business who uses or doesn't, IMO.

They get a team, they manage, thats all.

IMO the MLBPA has stone walled this investigation and having their players get tested from day #1, they should at least try and get to a level that the NFLPA is at currently.

by SoxAcumen on Dec 13, 2007 3:33 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I love
HA!  That's a good one!  The players' association has been fighting this every step of the way!
BC14

by BC14 on Dec 13, 2007 2:57 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I love
I believe that was SoxAcumen's point.

by RSNexile on Dec 13, 2007 5:22 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I love
I love how you giddily hop over here to point out our double standards.

Of course RSN would've been sad had Tek been named. But he's not.

Manny Ramirez is a bad man

by tommy.otm on Dec 13, 2007 2:23 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I love
I wasn't giddy.  And you're right about Veritek - to be honest, I'm glad it was wrong.  Same with for Damon and Pujos, who were also erroneously mentioned.

by docgonzo on Dec 13, 2007 2:55 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I love
I apologize if I projected a certain tone onto your statement.
Manny Ramirez is a bad man

by tommy.otm on Dec 13, 2007 3:06 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I love
I did say the list was completely unsubstantiated. We'll definitely post an actual list as soon as it's available.
"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.

by SoxDevil on Dec 13, 2007 2:24 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I love
The names are available, I just gave it a brief look over.

Former Sox on there include Gagne, Vaughn, Clemens, Mike Stanton, Mike Lansing, Manny Alexander, Jose Manzanillo, Jeremy Giambi, Donnelly, Kent Mercker, Chris Donnels.

Yanks include Clemens, Pettite, Giambi, Sheffield, David Justice, Rondell White, Kevin Brown, Chuck Knoblauch, Mike Stanton, Todd Williams, Ron Villone, Danny Neagle, Glenallen Hill, Jason Grimsley, Hal Morris.

Manny Ramirez is a bad man

by tommy.otm on Dec 13, 2007 2:40 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Mitchell Report
This is total BS.  The Mitchell Report is nothing more than a PR stunt by Bud Selig trying to put a postive spin on his time as commisioner.

He did nothing for ten years while all this transpired under his nose.  He was called to testify in front of congress and thumbed his nose at their questioning.

Now he is the mastermind who authorized the Mitchell investigation

A list comiled with NO EVIDENCE, and NO POSITIVE TEST RESULTS!!!

This is heasay--speculation, nothing that would hold up in court.

Selig should be ashamed of himself.
By the way, where is the stinking list???
I still only see probables everywhere...
Mike and the Mad dog had top get off the air because they couldn't even read their list!!!

What a total farse

xxCRACKxx flies the ball into the cool October night...

by mpieretti on Dec 13, 2007 2:38 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Mitchell Report
The list does have photocopies of checks that are fairly damning evidence.

by spinz on Dec 13, 2007 2:41 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Mitchell Report
i wanted to write a long article about this topic (as tommy might remember). it just got more and more frustrating the more information i got about it.

baseball did nothing, that is true. it is the same for almost all the other big sports.

to make it short:

everything is fucked up in professional sports.

so here is a very good link for you who may not know it already, which was good before the Mitchell report came out:
http://thesteroidera.blogspot.com/2006/10/evidence-against-roger-clemens.html
very funny is the sections with quotes.

i do not trust Mitchell at all that he was a neutral authority in this "investigaton".

they should have made the list public in a tv-show in pay-tv. that would have been the right environment.

by OilCanBoyd on Dec 13, 2007 3:20 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

from the quote part of that site
because we had it at another place about the "asshole" Kent here you have his quotes about that topic:

"Do I feel cheated?... All the non-users feel cheated. I think in a silent way, a lot of people who hadn't cheated over the years are happy with the way the media exposed the problem, and they're happy we're making progress toward evening the playing field."
Quote Source: San Francisco Chronicle, Mar. 3, 2005

"I worry about the game. I worry about if my kids want to be big-league players, like those kids out there (at the Dodgers' training site). I worry about the game not being clean and them not getting an opportunity. This problem has filtered to the kids at the high school and college level, and that's a shame."
Quote Source: San Francisco Chronicle, Mar. 3, 2005

by OilCanBoyd on Dec 13, 2007 3:53 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

LOL
checking again the
http://www.baseballssteroidera.com
and noticing for the first time the google ads.

5 ads on the site.
ALL OF THEM FOR HGH !!!

by OilCanBoyd on Dec 14, 2007 6:48 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Mitchell Report
You can view the report as a PDF file at mlb.com. He starts naming names @ page 127 (by the page number, not the number of the pdf). Each player has his own "header", followed by the allegations. Clemens has about five pages of evidence against him
Manny Ramirez is a bad man

by tommy.otm on Dec 13, 2007 2:42 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Mitchell Report
Yes there's no hard evidence, such as drug tests, but the fact that you have other people like Canseco who in the report is mentioned in the same section with Roger Clemens and their time in Toronto, along with scanned checks in the document is pretty damaging information. This is not a "farse" by any means, people like Radomski and McNamee would not risk their neck and accuse players unless they meant it. The fact that players didn't want to corporate with the report just makes their inclusion in this scandal more shady. If they were innocent why would they not meet with Mitchell and tell him flat out they didn't do it. As far as I'm concerned, every player mentioned in this list has lost a lot of my respect (not like it matters to them), and that would have been the same if Varitek or Papi were listed. A 20 month investigation is nothing to sneeze at and it shouldn't be taken lightly. It should be treated like the Black Sox Scandal where there was technically no evidence either, and Selig should find some way to enact a punishment on these accused players.  

by DougieGoingDeep on Dec 13, 2007 2:53 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Mitchell Report
What about shoeless joe??

by drabidea on Dec 13, 2007 3:01 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Mitchell Report
true...he was such a good person in Field of Dreams and 8 men out that I refuse to believe he could do something like that. He was just a poor illiterate boy who was hanging out with the wrong crowd

by DougieGoingDeep on Dec 13, 2007 3:15 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Mitchell Report
Yeah, but he was a drug dealer in 'Good Fellas'.

Oh, wait.. that's the actor...  ;^)

BC14

by BC14 on Dec 13, 2007 7:50 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Mitchell Report
I guess two White Sox testifying in court that they took money to throw the 1919 World Series does not equate to "Evidence" in your rules of law?

by SoxAcumen on Dec 13, 2007 3:35 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Mitchell Report
Heck, even Shoeless Joe's supporters admit he took money; they just say he gave it back. And he did play like he was trying to win.

But taking money from gamblers in the first place was still a gross violation of the rules.

by RSNexile on Dec 13, 2007 5:25 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Mitchell Report
Just to point out two obvious things:
  1.  As others have noted here, we still need to find out how certain names got on the list.  In the absence of established evidence (e.g., Giambi's and Grimsley's admissions), one shouldn't treat the people on this list as guilty.  We may learn more to support their inclusion on the list, but until then, we should avoid condemning them.  That goes for Pettite just as much as Damon just as much as Varitek.  
  2.  On the flip side, many people sound relieved that certain names are not on the list.  Yes, the players are innocent until proven guilty, but just because a player hasn't been named doesn't "prove" that he didn't take any PEDs, only that he wasn't caught in this investigation.  

by argo0 on Dec 13, 2007 2:39 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Mitchell Report
"Pettite just as much as Damon just as much as Varitek."

Neither Damon nor Tek were named.

Manny Ramirez is a bad man

by tommy.otm on Dec 13, 2007 2:44 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Mitchell Report
So much for relying on the early rumors, but I think you understand my point.

by argo0 on Dec 13, 2007 2:57 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Mitchell Report
Sure, I agree with your point. I just want to stamp out the meme that Tek and Trot were named before it becomes accepted. I mean, there is still a percentage of people who think we found WMDs in Iraq. Better to nip misinformation in the bud.
Manny Ramirez is a bad man

by tommy.otm on Dec 13, 2007 3:03 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Mitchell Report
im scanning through the report, names implicated that are catching my eye include: greg zaun, brian roberts, ron villone, roger clemens and petite, paul lo duca, kevin brown, eric gagne, brendan donelly

by spinz on Dec 13, 2007 2:40 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Mitchell Report
From what I've read so far the most upsetting part of the report is this little bit about Gagne:

When the Boston Red Sox were considering acquiring Gagné, a Red Sox official made specific inquiries about Gagné's possible use of steroids. In a November 1, 2006 email to a Red Sox scout, general manager Theo Epstein asked, "Have you done any digging on Gagne? I know the Dodgers think he was a steroid guy. Maybe so. What do you hear on his
medical?"

And when the scout Mark Delpiano confirmed steroids was in his past and that without the roids his durability or lack thereof could be affected..

It upsets me to think that Theo would still knowingly go after a player that has a checkered past, especially one that the scout said would be a risk...

by DougieGoingDeep on Dec 13, 2007 2:41 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Mitchell Report
hmm, where did you get the information bout that mail?

by OilCanBoyd on Dec 13, 2007 3:31 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Mitchell Report
yea that's interesting. Do you have access to Theo's Yahoo account? because if so, i would like the password to get some insider hot stove information

by Schulz on Dec 13, 2007 8:01 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Mitchell Report
Dougie, you really should credit the source of the quotes in your post.

The bit about the email from Theo appears in a Sports Illustrated article from earlier today:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/baseball/mlb/wires/12/13/2010.ap.bba.mitchell.report.red.sox.1 st.ld.writethru.0805/

BC14

by BC14 on Dec 13, 2007 10:05 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Mitchell Report
Of course, having said that, the SI article is actually an AP article... which (no surprise) doesn't bother to tell the reader who the author is...

So, don't believe everything you read  - especially from the Ass. Press, who clearly don't have the intenstinal fortitude to name their authors.

BC14

by BC14 on Dec 13, 2007 10:08 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Mitchell Report
checkered...
lol
xxCRACKxx flies the ball into the cool October night...

by mpieretti on Dec 13, 2007 10:23 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Mitchell Report
I was referring to the Gagne section in the report where he quotes the e-mails between Theo and the scout Mark Delpiano...not a SI article

by DougieGoingDeep on Dec 14, 2007 10:00 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Mitchell Report
sorry for not making the clear...that was my bad

by DougieGoingDeep on Dec 14, 2007 10:15 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Mitchell Report
Other than donelly and gagne im not seeing any other recent redsox names. vaugns in there of course.

by spinz on Dec 13, 2007 2:47 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Mitchell Report
2003 isn't recent?
BC14

by BC14 on Dec 13, 2007 2:52 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: who?
Mo.

He played until 2003.  No, not for the Sox, but this isn't about the Sox - it's about a bad joke being played on baseball fans.

BC14

by BC14 on Dec 13, 2007 3:00 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: who?
oh yeah, i agree its terrible. But i was just worried it was true guys like nixon and tek were going to be there, and theyr not.

by spinz on Dec 13, 2007 3:01 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: who?
Not seeing a particular name doesn't do anything for me.

MLB investigating itself and putting these names out there is a whitewash.

And gee, how lucky for MLB - HALF the names on the list are no longer playing!  

What a joke.

BC14

by BC14 on Dec 13, 2007 3:04 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Mitchell Report
Eric Gagne- getting his shipments sent to him right at Dodger Stadium.

Pretty bright guy.

BC14

by BC14 on Dec 13, 2007 2:52 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Mitchell Report
Interesting how they put Rick Ankiel's name in the report, but they basically exonerate him.

WTH??

BC14

by BC14 on Dec 13, 2007 2:59 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Mitchell Report
For all that speculated about some that weren't on the list - i.e. Varitek - you should apologize.

Just my thoughts.

This gets attached to your comments. Limit 160 characters.

by Hughie Jennings on Dec 13, 2007 3:02 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Sorry.
Manny Ramirez is a bad man

by tommy.otm on Dec 13, 2007 3:04 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Mitchell Report
why should i.

is the Mitchell report in any way a positiv list like all players not named are clean?

did the situation change because of the report (besides some silly namecalling from the MLB)?

if i personally get the impression (through what circumstances ever) he is clean and was for his whole career, i will say: "sorry, was wrong on that one."

on the other hand i accepted that professional sports was like that till now (and will be like that in the near future) and the players are not the only ones to blame.

i did not put the players on a throne so i do not have to kick them out of it (and back in because a report did not mention them).

this is just sports.

by OilCanBoyd on Dec 13, 2007 3:42 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Mitchell Report
Yes, bc Jason Varitek cares to read my opinions regarding his career. LOL.

Please, If Tek's name got put out to the media, I am sure his attorneys will be taking care of it as we speak.

by SoxAcumen on Dec 13, 2007 3:46 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Mitchell Report
What I find hysterical (but not really all that funny) is how many players claim they were under  "a doctor's care"... and then you read about "Doctors" like Claire Godfrey writing prescriptions for the stuff.

Now, that wouldn't be so unusual, except that ...

... she's an obstetrician.

BC14

by BC14 on Dec 13, 2007 3:12 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Mitchell Report
Dun da da dunnnn
It's Bud Selig to the rescue...
our night in shining armor

Bud states: "This report is a call to action"
This press conference makes me sick

After 10 years of inaction-- now he's ready!!!

I think the Feds turned up the heat on Selig with their investigation of Bonds.

Selig cooked this "report" up to save his butt.

"It's time to move forward" Bud Selig
So why are they dragging up names from the past?

So Bud can punish them-- He's our night in shining armor

Farce: a: ridiculous or empty show b: mockery <the enforcement of this law became a farce>

xxCRACKxx flies the ball into the cool October night...

by mpieretti on Dec 13, 2007 5:10 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Mitchell Report
Speaking of the Dog 'n Pony Sh - sorry -

the PRESS CONFERENCE - I saw on ESPN that Canseco actually showed up there - and they wouldn't let him in!   Hahahaaaaaaa

Ol' Bud & George were probably afraid he'd start yelling out a bunch of names that SHOULD be on the list!

BC14

by BC14 on Dec 13, 2007 5:29 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Mitchell Report
I'm well aware of what a farce is buddy...but i'm glad you looked up the proper spelling of it..that's called doing research...something Mitchell spent 20 months doing before he compiled a 300 page report on this topic

by DougieGoingDeep on Dec 13, 2007 6:01 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Mitchell Report
Mitchell's report makes me wonder what he did with the other 1,300 pages...
BC14

by BC14 on Dec 13, 2007 7:47 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Mitchell Report
No need to get nasty Dougie-- spelling mistakes happen all the time.

This is baseball-- it's supposed to be fun
retribution is no solution

xxCRACKxx flies the ball into the cool October night...

by mpieretti on Dec 13, 2007 7:42 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Mitchell Report
Not trying to get nasty with you, it's just kind of ridiculous to just throw out 20 months of research because maybe you don't like the results. After reading the report, there is actual evidence in there, there is testimony from people who would have no reason to lie about their teammates, coworkers, and friends.

No one is claiming Bud Selig is saving MLB, I can't think of one person that doesn't think he did this to save face. It had to happen, and any other commissioner would have done the same thing. He is at fault for letting this go on and should step down, but before he does that, he had to make an effort to save his image, any human being would. When it comes down to situations like this, you'll always try to save yourself.

Mpieretti,  you've done nothing on this board besides yell about how bogus it is, how terrible Selig is, and you have yet to bring anything decent to the discussion other than say it's BS. Have you even taken the time to read any of the report? I seriously doubt that Selig or Mitchell would let a report like this out without the time and research that Mitchell has put into it. There are probably hundreds of cases that he didn't report because there wasn't enough evidence against the players, but these 75 or so players that are named in it, they obviously came up enough in the past, giving them a reason to include them in this report. Not trying to be accusatory, but I don't remember seeing you on this site that often in the past (I don't post often so you might be in the same situation as me, big reader who rarely contributes), but you just come in out of no where yelling about how it's a scam which leads me to believe that you're a Yankees fan or something that is outraged that your players our mentioned and none of our current players are, in which case you really have no need to be on this board. And if you're not, than I'm sorry, I would just like to see you back up why you think this is a scam when Mitchell has dedicated about 2 years of his life to it, and you are just a fan who has no real insight to how the inner workings of the MLB are run. Until then, I'll take Mitchells word that these guys are suspect.  

Besides that and the Theo/Gagne part (from the report that I've mentioned earlier), the other thing that bothers me is what Bigbie did to Brian Roberts. Roberts had a 2 paragraph section and the only thing about him was what Bigbie told Mitchell. That he did not participate when he and Segui did, but then goes on to throw him under the bus by saying Roberts admitted trying it once or twice. It just seems like there was no need to do that to Roberts. He never suspected Roberts, and if he had never gone to Bigbie as a friend and admitted to trying it once or twice, his name never would have surfaced. Just seemed like Bigbie was grasping and trying to save himself by turning in whoever he could. I feel bad for Roberts slightly. (This information was on page 158 of the report at the bottom)

by DougieGoingDeep on Dec 14, 2007 10:32 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Mitchell Report
apologies for the length of the above comment...!

by DougieGoingDeep on Dec 14, 2007 10:33 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Mitchell Report
Don't apologize, it was a good rant.
"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.

by SoxDevil on Dec 14, 2007 1:12 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Mitchell Report
You jump to too many conclusions. I am a lifetime Red Sox fan, cought many a fowl ball on the roof of Fenway, and grew up getting autographs of Parish, Bird, Ainge, etc.  What this has to do with posting on OTM, I don't know, but you asked. So lets just  agree that I am not yankees fan like you suspect.  Apology accepted.

I have read the report [check]

As for why Mitchell spent 2 years to investigate steroids in Baseball... he was paid money to do so.

My problem is that Selig has chosen to try these NAMED players in the court of public opinion to save his own skin.

Where was Bud the last ten years when EVERYONE knew this was going on?  Bud was in the stands counting his revenue, cheering the 70 home run race, and building smaller ballparks.  Now he rides in to save the day by smearing the players who brung him.

Your Roberts point from above is my case and point.  There is harder evidence on some players, circumstatial on others.  My problem is that Selig has chosen to release this to the media- creating this circus- and the players have not, and will not get a fair trial.

If Selig really wanted to clean up the game, implement a strong testing policy, and try the players named by Mitchell on a case by case basis behind closed doors, and THEN release the results to the public.  Do not release the PROCESS to make a big media spalsh to look like a hero!!!

My take on this Mitchell report is that it is really a power struggle between the comish and the players union.  By giving these players a black eye, Selig is trying to force a stronger testing policy out of the union.

I just see his tactics as out of line, and his motives transparent.

Good stuff

xxCRACKxx flies the ball into the cool October night...

by mpieretti on Dec 14, 2007 11:23 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Mitchell Report
Alrighty...that's really what I was looking for. I wasn't trying to come across as a jerk about it, I just wanted to see how and why you felt the way you do about the report, other than the obvious fact that you don't like Selig. I'm not the biggest fan of his, and I'm upset it came to this, but I feel it had to. It sucks for all those involved, especially those like Roberts, who were handcuffed to a sinking ship it seems, but I'm all for getting baseball back to it's purest. When it was just out of shape man throwing and hitting balls and being degenerate drunks. Thank god for Ponson and Wells. To me, it seemed like you were just expressing your hatred for Selig and this report instead of letting me know why. I feel that all of baseball is at fault for it coming to this, and those few players that don't go the steroid route should be cheered. Sadly, we'll never really know the full extent of steroid/HGH use in baseball, and these players are being turned into the scapegoats, but that's the risk they ran when they decided to cheat and thats something they need to live with.

This day and age though, there's no such thing as behind closed doors. With the internet and media all over these players, this list would have surfaced at some point, maybe including names that aren't even included, as seen by the list that was making the rounds earlier in the day yesterday. So maybe this way was the only way of damage control to make sure it didn't get any worse and bring other players names into it. I can't vouch for Selig's train of thought, that's just my assumption.

As far as posting on OTM I was just hoping you weren't a Yankee troll crying foul, and again I'm sorry cause I certainly would never want someone to think that of me. Hopefully this will all pass by the time Spring Training starts (doubtful) and we can just focus on winning another Series without the "help" of Gagne.

by DougieGoingDeep on Dec 14, 2007 12:02 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Mitchell Report
I could be wrong, but didn't the report bash the commish also, saying the whole baseball community was at fault?

This vaguely reminded me of the Black sox scandal (and I could be getting this dead wrong), where the owners appointed the first commish, not so much to clean up baseball but to "look" like they were doing so (kinda like Selig did when he hired Mitchell to conduct this investigation), and the Commish ended up banning all those involved (which wasn't actually what the owners wanted, especially not the White Sox owner), so it kinda backfired. Same here kinda, Selig hired Mitchell to make it look like he wasn't at fault, and Mitchell turned around and basically said it was everyone's fault, including the commish

by Realistic on Dec 14, 2007 5:14 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Mitchell Report
MLB and the players' union really needs to step up and take the opportunity to fix things without a single entity taking all of the blame. Institute an independent testing body like the Olympics.
"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.

by SoxDevil on Dec 14, 2007 5:56 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

FireJoeMorgan.com
is funny again :)

look for the Pettite article.

too funny.

an excerpt to show how christians thinking works:
(http://www.beliefnet.com/story/167/story_16732_1.html)

"...
While God has me playing baseball, even where I play comes down to a question of His plan for my life. When my last contract with the Yankees expired I could sign with any major league team I wanted. But I knew that wasn't really my decision. I prayed and sought God's will throughout the 2003 baseball season because I wanted to know where God wanted me to play next.
..."

i could not imagine that a mercyfull god (as some christians still claim that their god is) ever wants to have somebody play for the yankees.

by OilCanBoyd on Dec 14, 2007 8:47 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Re: FireJoeMorgan.com
Doesn't God love sinners and saints alike? ;)

No, I'm not launching into religious discussion. I'm just yanking your chain. I'm not religious and barely spiritual.

"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.

by SoxDevil on Dec 14, 2007 10:17 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: FireJoeMorgan.com
your right.

and at least in the end that god wanted to have this "sinner" play for the Houston Astros not the yankees after the 2003 season : )

by OilCanBoyd on Dec 14, 2007 10:43 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

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