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6-Man Rotation?

[editor's note, by Allen Chace] Figured I'd front-page this, since it's gotten some discussion. Interested? Know a way to work this out with our roster?

I'm wondering about the possibility of the Sox going with a 6-man rotation in 2008.  You've got six possible members of the rotation, two of whom are over 40 (Schilling and Wakefield), two of whom will be innings limited (Lester and Buchholz), and one who never pitched in a 5-man rotation until last year and wore down by the end of the season (Matsuzaka).  Only Beckett is an obvious candidate for a 5-man rotation, and it's possible that we could occasionally move him up in the rotation or skip a start from one of the others in order to let him pitch more often.  

It's definitely a radical notion, but given our starting pitching for next year, it might be our best option.  One concern is whether our pitchers would have trouble reverting back to a 5-man rotation in subsequent years (or in the event of an injury).  Another is that carrying an additional starting pitcher would mean that we'd have to go with one less reliever or one less bench field player.  

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Re: 6-Man Rotation?
This gets bandied about a lot, and I think the idea has merit, but I also think it's never going to happen.

I probably should say something of more substance than that, but there it is.

by Allen Chace on Nov 6, 2007 1:41 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Re: 6-Man Rotation?
The problem is that it eats up a roster space that could otherwise be used to thicken up the bench or the bullpen, both of which could use more depth.

I think I'd prefer to see a five man rotation with Beckett, Dice-K, Schilling, Lester, and Wake to start the season, with Buchholz starting in Pawtucket. As excited as I am about the possibility of Buchholz in the rotation, I think it might be better to give him just a little more time in the minors. He'll end up in the rotation by June anyway, possibly with Wake shifting to the bullpen.

by RSNexile on Nov 6, 2007 1:45 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Of substance.
It would limit our roster.

6 starters
4 starting infielders
3 starting outfielders
1 David Ortiz
1 starting catcher
4 bench players: 4th OF, Moss/Hinske-ish player, Cora, Mirabeast

Which means six relievers. Paps, Oki, MDC, Timlin, Tavarez, Snyder/Lopez/Pauley/FA/Trade.

Strikes me as something you MIGHT be able to get away with easier in the NL. Or if your pitchers were all prepared to pitch in relief on their "throw day" rather than in a controlled bullpen session.

by Allen Chace on Nov 6, 2007 1:46 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Of substance.
RSNexile beat me to it.

by Allen Chace on Nov 6, 2007 1:48 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Of substance.
This could work if the Sox were content to DL relievers or keep the shuttle running back and forth to Pawtucket.

I suppose Tavarez and Buchholz are two guys taking up 1 roster spot. The long man is there to both pitch relief and make spot starts.

"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.

by SoxDevil on Nov 6, 2007 2:01 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Of substance.
Anyone else doubt the FA you mentioned will be Linebrink? Theo has been after him for years.

by Matzushocka on Nov 6, 2007 2:55 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Of substance.
He kind of wore out this year, no?

I'm getting a little tired of getting these great relievers two years after they're great. Gagne, Donnelly, Williamson, Mantei, Mendoza, Bradford, etc.

Manny Ramirez is a bad man

by tommy.otm on Nov 6, 2007 3:03 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Of substance.
Friggin RP are such a crap shoot.

by Matzushocka on Nov 6, 2007 3:11 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Very true
I like the idea of another Japanese import.
Manny Ramirez is a bad man

by tommy.otm on Nov 6, 2007 3:14 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re:
I don't see the need for going to a 6 man. Buchholz will get plenty of starts. I'd put money on both Wake and Curt seeing some time on the DL.

Including Hoolio, we're 7 seven deep. I like it.

Manny Ramirez is a bad man

by tommy.otm on Nov 6, 2007 2:02 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Re:
Agreed. Betting on a 6-man rotation is betting against injuries.
What would Dogbert do?

by panzermensch on Nov 6, 2007 2:11 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: 6-Man Rotation?
Can we get Morgan Ensberg to fill Hinske's old spot?

by Matzushocka on Nov 6, 2007 2:54 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Re: 6-Man Rotation?
I wonder if resigning Curt means we might trade either Lester or Clay?
Manny Ramirez is a bad man

by tommy.otm on Nov 6, 2007 3:22 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Re: 6-Man Rotation?
Why? It's one year for Schilling, and both Lester and Clay have their whole careers ahead of them. It's much more likely Clay will start the year in AAA and replace whoever goes on the DL or Wake in the rotation by midseason.

by RSNexile on Nov 6, 2007 5:46 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: 6-Man Rotation?
I was just thinking having Curt around might make it easier for Theo to justify packaging Coco and say Lester for a new third baseman, or catcher, or whatever.
Manny Ramirez is a bad man

by tommy.otm on Nov 6, 2007 6:01 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: 6-Man Rotation?
I would say: don't include Lester in any package that doesn't include either another young pitcher or somebody like Santana.

Remember Bronson Arroyo?  It's basically impossible to have too many pitchers.  

As for Coco - the taxi is waiting at the curb.

by RickD on Nov 7, 2007 6:27 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: 6-Man Rotation?
Oh I remember Bronson. I just wonder if Theo does...
Manny Ramirez is a bad man

by tommy.otm on Nov 7, 2007 9:14 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

From Boston.com
As for Schilling, Epstein sounded thrilled to get him tied up, as he gives the Sox great flexibility with the starting pitching. With Josh Beckett, Daisuke Matsuzaka, Jon Lester, Clay Buchholz, Tim Wakefield, and now Schilling aboard, the Sox can do a few things, perhaps even package a young pitcher in a trade.
Manny Ramirez is a bad man

by tommy.otm on Nov 7, 2007 9:42 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: 6-Man Rotation?
Its a great idea in theory but as we all know once the season starts someone will get injured and it will go back to 5.  To quote Stripes "Custer had a plan"

Also, check out my new blog : http://fenwaywest.blogspot.com/

Thanks

Yaz in '08

by Fenway West on Nov 6, 2007 4:21 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Re: 6-Man Rotation?
We are also assuming Wake's shoulder/back/whatever really heals up in the off season. We could be back to a 5 man rotation before April rolls around if he decides to hang em up. Long time to go but I like how Theo is keeping all our options open for a low price.
For a week in Oct. 2004 I did not sleep.

by narbaysox on Nov 6, 2007 8:57 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Who said it? Me!
The Red Sox are in the very early stages of considering a dramatic switch to their pitching rotation that has nothing to do with signing a major free agent or acquiring a star hurler.

Based on the success the team had with giving Schilling and Josh Beckett more than seven days' rest on several occasions late in the season and the fact that Daisuke Matsuzaka thrived on five days' rest in his native Japan, the team is considering a switch to a six-man pitching rotation.

"We've discussed that concept, the concept of a six-man rotation," Epstein said. "I think it's premature to commit to any usage pattern, but certainly we're in a bit of a unique situation where you'd say a number of our starters might benefit from something like that in one way or another. But there's just so much attrition in baseball that the minute we start counting on having a six-man rotation or give it serious consideration, that's when we lose a pitcher or two in Spring Training and we look for someone to step up."

Adding more fuel to the speculation now is the return of Schilling for 2008, giving the Red Sox, at least on paper, six starters heading into the season in Beckett, Matsuzaka, Schilling, Tim Wakefield, Jon Lester and possibly Clay Buchholz.

"I'm sure that topic will come up in our internal discussions between now and Spring Training. It's an interesting concept, given the personnel we have, but not something we've fully explored yet," Epstein said.

Mike Petraglia, contributor to MLB.com.

I don't expect a 6-man rotation for the entire season, but I think it's reasonable to consider a 6-man rotation in September, and possibly August.

"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.

by SoxDevil on Nov 6, 2007 9:39 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Re: 6-Man Rotation?
By having a 6 man rotation we would be taking starts away from Beckett, something we certainly don't want to do.

by gnick55 on Nov 6, 2007 9:42 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Re: 6-Man Rotation?
+1.  I'm also not big on the idea of "coddling" Dice-BB this way. It's not like we'd be doing this for him in future seasons, and he's healthy enough and has the history to handle the innings required in a 5-man.

Maybe some rotation of Wake, Schill, Lester, and Buch, but the top two need to be left alone with the opportunity to make 33-34 starts apiece.

by Allen Chace on Nov 6, 2007 10:16 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: 6-Man Rotation?
Exactly.  The idea is hopefully that Dice-K will adjust to pitching in a 5 man rotation, not that the Sox will adjust to having to field a 6 man rotation to appease him.  In theory this rookie year should have gone a long way to preparing him for what will be a 5 man rotation he'll be in for the rest of his career.

I think the surplus of pitching will either be used to help out when pitchers invariably get injured or if everyone stays perfectly healthy then to just use them to give people some time off to get some rest here and there as it gets late in the year.

by WildYams on Nov 7, 2007 2:53 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Although...
Switching to a 6-man for at least for periods of the season would save arms for the post-season. Sabathia made every start of the season in a five day rotation, and he looked done in the post-season. And if it weren't for Beckett's trip to the DL, he might have hit the wall as well.
Manny Ramirez is a bad man

by tommy.otm on Nov 7, 2007 12:01 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: 6-Man Rotation?
I've got an idea. Let's take starts away from our best starter, and give more to the ones that are questionable. Let's tax the bullpen by giving more starts to guys like Lester and Wakefield who are unlikely to make it more than five innings. And to cap it all off, let's take away a roster spot from the pen, so it can be overworked AND undermanned.

by 0157H7 on Nov 6, 2007 10:34 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Re: 6-Man Rotation?
No no no. You're doing this all wrong.

They already HAVE that idea.

...

More seriously, the only way this would work is if our backup MI were someone like Ryan Freel or Chone Figgins who could also fill in in the OF. Alex Cora does not fit that bill.

by Allen Chace on Nov 6, 2007 10:35 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: 6-Man Rotation?
As someone who's seen Alex Cora warming in the bullpen, and who's read Scott Boras' binder on Cora, I heartily disagree. Alex Cora doesn't have limits to his baseball ability. Cora only stopped hitting home-runs and triples early in the season 'cause he felt sorry for the little guy, Dustin. He doesn't pitch every game because he's a team player, and it'd be embarassing to obsolete Curt, Wake, Lester and Buch. That and 110 MPH fastballs kill people.

by 0157H7 on Nov 6, 2007 11:28 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: 6-Man Rotation?
The first, in hopefully many chapters on the legend of Alex Cora.

I was wrong to suggest he can't play CF. It's really more that it's a waste to have OTHER OFs on the field when he's out there, right?

by Allen Chace on Nov 6, 2007 11:37 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: 6-Man Rotation?
Your name makes me sick to the stomach.
Bottom 9th B:1 S:0 O:0 With Bill Mueller batting, Dave Roberts steals (1) 2nd base.

by britsoxfan on Nov 7, 2007 3:37 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: 6-Man Rotation?
Not yours, Allen! I was intrigued by "0157H7" and used Google to find out more...
Bottom 9th B:1 S:0 O:0 With Bill Mueller batting, Dave Roberts steals (1) 2nd base.

by britsoxfan on Nov 7, 2007 9:37 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: 6-Man Rotation?
Heh. Googled it myself.

...and...I'm obtuse. Hehe. Get it now though.

by Allen Chace on Nov 7, 2007 11:09 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

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