Over the Monster: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Around SBN: The Record of Wrongs: Vanderbilt Commodores

Unoffical 3B Discussion

This seems to be spread across multiple various posts so thought I would try to compile the options and thoughts. I had a comment about the Cabrera option and couldn't figure out where to post it, so I thought an updated universal diary might be helpful (go ahead and delete it Randy or Allen if it's not at all helpful):

Star-divide

A-Rod

No longer an option, re-signing with Yankees

Lowell

Reportedly has been offered 4 years from 4 different teams for 55-60 million dollars. Read this diary for more details and discussion

Cabrera

Reportedly the Sox, Angels, and Dodgers have all dangled some players as potential trade pieces. Angels and Dodgers seem to be trumping the Sox in what they are willing to offer with the Angels suggesting Brandon Wood, Maicer Izturis and Howie Kendrick and pitcher Nick Adenhart are available while the Dodgers are offering Matt Kemp, Chad Billingsley, James Loney and Andy LaRoche.
My take: If this rumor is true, forget the Angels, what are the Dodgers thinking?? Loney and LaRoche look like they will be all-stars, Kemp looks like he will be a solid hitter, and Billingsley I've always liked and looks like he will be a very solid SP. Those are 4 young, cost-controlled players who all are Major league ready (or already playing in the Majors). The Dodgers would be trading away the future of the Dodgers for one player who as many have said, might eat himself out of the Majors in the next couple of years. I don't want the Sox to even consider trying to match this offer

Rolen

Thoughts? Is he worth it? What will it take to trade for him? Do we want him trough 2010? There's thought out there that because the Cardinals don't want to be eating any part of his remaining salary and because he is begining to age an wouldbe locked up through 2010, that they will have to accept that they'll have to give him up for little  in return. If we can get him without parting with any A level prospects, maybe some combination of B-level prospects and Coco, I'm all for it.

Jed Lowrie/Brandon Moss

Take the Pedroia approach and hand over the job to a Youngster and let them run with it (moving Youk to 3B if it's Moss).
My take: I like the Moss option. He may not be as good as Lowell would be, but I think he could successfully hold down the position until either a better option is available in a year or two or until Lars matures enough to take over 1B. It's not the end of the world if we become a little weaker in one position, especially with us already getting stronger in CF upgrading from Coco to Ellsbury, and the possibility of Lugo and Drew bouncing back

0 recs  |  Comment 25 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

Re: Unoffical 3B Discussion
Is this the Official Unofficial 3b Discussion?

My first choice would be Lowell. Three years with a vesting option, totalling $56.

Regarding Fat Miggy, I'm with you - we can't match either the Angels or Dodgers. I don't see the Dodgers actually offering all four of those guys, it has to be rumor. Cabrera is a great hitter, but in terms of winning games, he's not worth 20 cost controlled years of 4 good to very good players, with Kemp being a potential star. I think the Angels are most likely, with a package around Kendrick. Though if the Marlins get Loney, that'd free up Mike Jacobs, who is a pretty good hitter.

I'm with you in that if Lowell leaves, let's go with the Lowrie/Moss approach. Between Ellsbury, Papi, Manny, Drew and Lugo, I see the non-3b portion of our lineup being much better next year. We can afford to take a chance on a couple of kids who look like solid major leaguers. Maybe we can invite some Morgan Ensberg/Russell Branyan types to spring training and see if they can hack it. (though I doubt it).

Manny Ramirez is a bad man

by tommy.otm on Nov 16, 2007 12:21 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Unoffical 3B Discussion
I agree with you that the Sox are out of the running for a Cabrera trade.  If Theo wanted to, he could get him for Buccholz, Ellsbury, Lester, and Others, but he would never do that.

A-Rod is off the market, and I'm glad.

As far as Lowell goes, I don't think we'll see him in a Red Sox uniform next year.  We are smart enough to not award a contract year with a 4 year/$60 million signing.

Cabrera will probably go to the Dodgers, A-Rod will be with the Yanks, and Lowell will sign with the Angels- leaving not much else for us.

I think we could solve our problems by trading for Adam Dunn of the Reds.  Cinci reportedly needs to free up some salary.  We could take Dunn's contract off their hands and give them a more cost-controlled OF option in Coco Crisp. We could also package some other players* and prospects.  This deal makes sense for both teams, after we move Yooouk across the diamond and stick Dunn at 1B.

Resulting Lineup
Ellsbury
PedRoYa
Papi
Manny
Dunn
J.D. Drew
Youk
Veritek
Lugo

Not bad eh? what are your thoughts?

*(Does Julian Tavarez have any trade value?)

by Schulz on Nov 17, 2007 8:57 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Unoffical 3B Discussion
P.S.  Last year Dunn hit .263/.386/.554, 40, 106

by Schulz on Nov 17, 2007 9:33 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Unoffical 3B Discussion
Mabe I've just gotten spoiled by Youk, but I shudder at the thought of Dunn playing first. I love his bat, though.
Manny Ramirez is a bad man

by tommy.otm on Nov 17, 2007 10:28 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Unoffical 3B Discussion
Personally, I'd like the Sox try to acquire a guy like Brandon Wood (LAAoA) or Ian Stewart (COL) to play 3B. I think Rolen is cooked and on the downside of his career. If the Sox can get him for a bucket of balls, he might be worthwhile as a short-term solution. Take your expectations and multiply by 3/4, though. How about trading Coco to the Twins for Mike Cuddyer? He could certainly play 1B.
"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.

by SoxDevil on Nov 16, 2007 12:23 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Cuddyer
I'd do that. Don't know if the Twins would, I would.
Manny Ramirez is a bad man

by tommy.otm on Nov 16, 2007 12:35 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Unoffical 3B Discussion
In regards to Rolen, indirectly that was what I was trying to get at. For something cheap I'd do it, anything signifant and I'd pull the plug right away. The more I think about it though the less I like it, agreed that he is on the down turn of his career, and now that I think about the fact that he would be coming from NL to Al, he might struggle with adapting to a new league. Plus he has a bum shoulder. All in all, only want him if it's for next to nothing

by Realistic on Nov 16, 2007 12:43 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Unoffical 3B Discussion
Why would the Twins trade Cuddyer for Coco? Cuddyer is their starting right-fielder, and he gives their team good value in that position. If the Twins trade for Crisp they'll stick Coco in CF to replace Torii Hunter. They have too little offense already without giving up a 15+ HR hitter in Cuddyer.

by 0157H7 on Nov 16, 2007 9:01 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Unoffical 3B Discussion
Agreed that Cuddyer > Coco. We'd have to sweeten the package a bit. Perhaps Moss and a low-level pitching prospect would be enough?
"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.

by SoxDevil on Nov 19, 2007 9:29 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Unoffical 3B Discussion
I agree with most of what has been said (Rolen for cheap, bring up new guns) What I just want to point out is there are alot of options, especially when you have alot to trade with. We have a couple of 1B and 3B in the minors that will be ready in a couple of years. All we really need is a cheap fix for the next couple of years.

My point. Don't risk everything we have for a great 3B (4 yr lowell contract, miggy, etc.) When we only need a good 3B to get through the next couple of years.

by drabidea on Nov 16, 2007 1:03 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Unoffical 3B Discussion
As a counter-argument, there's no telling if our corner-IF prospects/projects will pan out at all. Our best hope is Lars Anderson, but he's still 3+ years away (he's only 19!).

Lowell is the best candidate in my opinion, followed by a trade. While other teams might go with a Brandon Moss experiment at 1B/3B, I don't think the Red Sox will.

I'm liking the Cuddyer idea, actually.

"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.

by SoxDevil on Nov 16, 2007 6:01 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Unoffical 3B Discussion
In my opinion we should go with a stop gap player like Moss or Ensburg this year, then go all out to sign Teixeira when he files for free agency after 2008.

The only problem with that approach is if Teixeira does not become a free agent after 2008 (which he almost certainly will), we will have to rely on another stop-gap player in 2008 unless we pull of a blockbuster.

by gnick55 on Nov 17, 2007 1:09 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Unoffical 3B Discussion
The 2009 free agent class is stronger than this year, but that's not saying much. Not the strongest batch of 1st baseman, beyond Teixeira. And not the strongest bunch of 3rd baseman either.

Sign Lowell. It's better than the alternatives by far.

Manny Ramirez is a bad man

by tommy.otm on Nov 17, 2007 1:39 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Nov 17, 2007 10:43 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Unoffical 3B Discussion
I'm disappointed that we haven't seen any rumours around the amazing crop of young players, Cabrera excepted. These are historically good times for young thirdbasemen.
Bottom 9th B:1 S:0 O:0 With Bill Mueller batting, Dave Roberts steals (1) 2nd base.

by britsoxfan on Nov 17, 2007 2:02 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Unoffical 3B Discussion
I mean, what would it take to prise someone like Zimmerman away? Lester and...?
Bottom 9th B:1 S:0 O:0 With Bill Mueller batting, Dave Roberts steals (1) 2nd base.

by britsoxfan on Nov 17, 2007 2:07 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Unoffical 3B Discussion
Zimmerman is tough, cause he's really the only thing that the Nats have going for them.
Manny Ramirez is a bad man

by tommy.otm on Nov 17, 2007 2:27 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm all for Cabrera
I'm all for Cabrera, and I'd be willing to give up a lot for him.

His numbers, at this point, are better than Manny's were at this point in his career.  I say you get him and immediately sign him to a long term deal.  In Fenway, he'd have better power than he does in Dolphins' Stadium.  He is a player you can build around, and a possible HOFer entering his prime.

Boo Damon. Cheer Bonds.

by illgamesh on Nov 18, 2007 12:07 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Re: I'm all for Cabrera
The idea of Cabrera in our lineup makes me drool.
However, would you give up future top-of-the-rotation starter Clay Buccholz, future all-star leadoff hitter Jacoby Ellsbury, and other big prospects to get him?  Keep in mind, those guys will be very cost-controlled for a number of years, freeing up more money to pursue big time free agents- possibly even Cabrera in 2 years

by Schulz on Nov 18, 2007 2:34 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Contracts
In terms of cost-controlled players for the next few years we have
Lester (SP)
Buccholz (SP)
Papelbon (CL)
Pedroia (2B)
Youk (1B)
Ellsbury (CF)

Also, the following players are under contract for the next 3+ years:
Ortiz (DH)
Beckett (SP)
Dice-K (SP)
Lugo (SS)
Drew (RF)

This means we can focus our spending on a fifth starter, a new catcher (or resign Tek), a left fielder, and a third basemen.
Trading for Miggy would set up our corner infield positions for years to come, but it would also create more holes to fill.

by Schulz on Nov 18, 2007 3:04 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Contracts
Manny's options for 09 will be a deal compared to other talent available.  Manny is still one of the top 10 hitters in the game and a masher during the playoffs.  I think the Sox will exercise his option for 09.

As for a pitcher, most likely, the Sox will move some of their young talent, Ellsbury and Buchholz no included, to get another front line starter like Haren, Beddard, Kazmir or sign a FA like Brad Penny in 2 years.

Ellsbury will never be traded. He is far too important to the Sox future image.  He makes them too much money so he is worth more to the organization than Miggy C. or A-Rod or in all honesty, outside of Dice-K (bc he is a celeb in a baseball crazy country), Ellsbury is the most important financial investment the Red Sox have had in their organization since Babe Ruth.

Anyone want to speculate on how much Ellsbury signs for with Nike, Addias, or whomever?

Lebron Bron type money.  10yrs/100million easy after the WS.  Think of Jeter in the 90s.

As for 3rd, this really makes 0 difference.  A-Rod is now trapped and away from Theo, he will ruin the Yanks for 10 years and all the Sox have to do is win the east.  

Carlos Pena is a nice option at first and Youk at 3rd if we cannot get Lowell.

Or deal a package to Oakland and see if they will give up Haren if we take Eric Chavez's insane contract.  Chavez is an excellent replacement for 3rd + we take a young stud like Haren off their hands.  They can have a cheap CF with Coco, maybe Lester who will most likely do better out of Fenway, and whomever that does not have a last name of Ellsbury or Buchholz.

I think we need to understand that the Sox are in the drivers seat when it comes to trades.  Hey, if  TB or Florida or whomever do not want to deal with us, well find another team, Sox have a great team, with a great farm system and they won in 07.  Other teams need to make deals with us or their FAgents walk.  Most of our players are locked up.

by SoxAcumen on Nov 18, 2007 7:59 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Whoa there...
I'm an Ellsbury fan too, but let him get a few more at bats under his belt before you catapult him past Williams, Yaz, Rice, Boggs, etc.
Manny Ramirez is a bad man

by tommy.otm on Nov 18, 2007 8:09 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Whoa there...
Ellsbury's potential is in his marketability.  The sports companies are dying to get a shot at using his face in advertisements.  

by SoxAcumen on Nov 19, 2007 2:07 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Unoffical 3B Discussion
Now that the MFY have pulled their deal off the table for Lowell, and the Braves and Cardinals deny offering him contracts, keeping in mind that the Phillies only have around $10 million to spend this offseason and their main focus is pitching, I'd say there is an increasingly high chance Lowell comes back for 3yrs/36-45mil.

by gnick55 on Nov 18, 2007 10:05 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

From ESPN's Buster Olney

Heard early this morning: Mike Lowell is close to re-signing with the Red Sox, for three years. Assuming that the I's are dotted and the T's are crossed without a final hangup, the heavy lifting of three major players in the AL East -- Boston, New York and Toronto -- is all but over.

I don't know how much credence I give to Olney, but if it's true and that Lowell has decided to accept a three year deal from the Sox, that's great news.

Manny Ramirez is a bad man

by tommy.otm on Nov 19, 2007 11:18 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to Over The Monster, an SB Nation community that delivers news and analysis while encouraging discussion regarding everything regarding the Boston Red Sox organization. OTM was founded Feb. 22, 2005.
Start posting about the Red Sox »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recent FanPosts

Einstein_small
The STI List
Small
Johnny D.
39135485-59af19dbb26654095f910f34176af094_4ae8a81e-scaled_small
Predictions Group
Small
Red Sox sign Joe Nelson
Einstein_small
AL EAST WAR Projections - Positional
39135485-59af19dbb26654095f910f34176af094_4ae8a81e-scaled_small
Cameron Overpaid?
Anthony_rizzo_small
The Tale of The 1985 St Louis Cardinals
Small
Brief Sabermetric Primer: GPA
Small
Brief Sabermetric Primer: IsoP
Small
OT: The Red Sox of the NFL - Go Saints!!!

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >


Managers

N32606527_32219358_6072_small Randy Booth

Editors

Master_shake_small Allen Chace

Rorscach_small 0157H7

Red_seat_small Ben Buchanan

Authors

Zissou551_small SoxDevil

Red_sox_logo_small Logan Lietz

Photo_small wolf9309