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Sox prepared to land Matsuzaka

Theo Epstein and Larry Lucchino jumped on a plane to find Dice-K and agent Scott Boras in California in hopes to land a deal. Epstein says it will be a "record" offer:

Gordon Edes

Sox sources say that the offer Theo Epstein and Larry Lucchino intend to present agent Scott Boras is a boatload of money. I won't hazard a guess at this stage, though Theo, when asked about a quote attributed to Boras in which he said something about the market for pitchers headed toward the $100 million range, may have shed some light on it when he said the total outlay of cash for Dice-K will be in that neighborhood. Theo said it will the most money paid a Japanese player coming to the major leagues in his initial contract. Hideki Matsui was paid $21 million in a three-year deal when he came over in 2003; Ichiro, who arrived two years earlier, was paid $14 million over three years. The Sox offer is expected to trump those figures by a considerable margin, but will far short of the kind of parameters Boras has suggested to the Sox in conversations.

It's crunch time. I have no doubt now that Theo will strike a deal to bring Matsuzaka to Boston.

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Re: Sox prepared to land Matsuzaka
Frankly, the Sox seem pissed at Boras. It seems to me that Boras is dodging the Sox in negotiations, playing his game using the media.

Get 'er done, Larry & Theo.

I bet the Sox will be psyched when Buchholtz, Bard, Bowden, and others are ready for the big time. Even bottom-of-the-rotation pitchers are expensive these days! You can never have too much pitching, if only to trade it for even MORE pitching (See: Other Sox, Garcia)

P.S. Ellsbury is now #1 on SoxProspects.com's list.

"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.

by SoxDevil on Dec 12, 2006 12:36 PM EST reply actions  

So what happens
If the Sox spend a total of about 150 million and this guy isnt lights out? Just give him a three year deal and if he is as good as people think than after his second season extend his contract. I cant believe that the Sox who just paided guys like Drew and Lugo a combined 106 million are now going to turn around and give an unproven pitcher another 100 million in the same off season. All that money spent and still no closer.

by 86 years later on Dec 12, 2006 3:34 PM EST reply actions  

Re: So what happens
Not a problem. If he isn't lights out, Theo will look to dump the contract and Steinbrenner will take him because he'd still be an upgrade in the MFYs' rotation.

by RSNexile on Dec 12, 2006 4:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Money, Money, Money, Money
Scott Boras does not help these talks at all. He is all about the money. Dice-K has put up good numbers in Japan, a weak hitting league. He does this all the time, billing these kids up like they are the greatest thing since sliced bread. IF Hansen had not gone to Boras and said "i want the deal done" he would have sat out for a year. I think that the deal will be done but the sox should pay 10-12 a year for him. Boras wants 15, Sox want to pay about 6. How about a contract that is 9 mill a year with insetivs to get it up to 13-14 a year? What Boras doesn't understand (I am sure he understands this but ignors it for the purpose of the talks) is the kid hasn't even pitched here.

Oh well, here's to hoping he is all he was billed to be.

by absolutelax395 on Dec 12, 2006 4:23 PM EST reply actions  

Re: Money, Money, Money, Money
Better yet, here's hoping he fires Boras, signs with an agent who isn't such a tool, and is all he was billed to be.

by RSNexile on Dec 12, 2006 6:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Money, Money, Money, Money
No way that happens this late in the game.

by absolutelax395 on Dec 12, 2006 7:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Money, Money, Money, Money
I agree Boras is a tool. I think that the Sox have him by the balls. Why dont they just tell him this is what we are going to pay take it of leave it. Because when push comes to shove its D-Mats call and if the Sox offer is fair he would much rather take it then go back to Japan.

by 86 years later on Dec 12, 2006 9:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Money, Money, Money, Money
Bora$ has nothing the least to lose in this case, just another client to him and if he doesnt get what he wants, a relatively small payday. Matsuzaka, on the other hand has a lot to lose including a big payday and the respect of the Japanese fans. As long as the Sox made a legitimate offer, they will come out of this debacle unscathed. Plus we get the $51.1 mil back
Get your Yankees Suck - Japanese shirts now: http://www.cafepress.com/yankeessuckjap

by jsnvaritek33 on Dec 12, 2006 10:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Money, Money, Money, Money
Reportedly the Japanese media is already trashing Boras for being an a** with the negotiation process. He actually does have more to lose then a small payday because him and another agent are currently battling to be the number one agent for Japanese players coming over to America and messing this deal up kills his chances, yet it seems like he just doesn't care (maybe he realized Japanese free-agents don't make as much as American FA simply because they have no MLB track record so he stopped caring if the other guy becomes the #1 agent in Japan, or maybe he's pushing it to minutes before the deadline in hopes of scaring the Sox FO to get closer to his $20 mill/yr demands, who knows)

by Realistic on Dec 13, 2006 9:17 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: Money, Money, Money, Money
Boras seems to be thinking big picture, that if Matsuzaka doesn't sign, it will cause baseball to revisit the posting process, resulting in less money for the teams and more for the players, meaning more for the agents.  He may be right, but he does so at the cost of money for this client (as opposed to future ones).  From what I've read, Matsuzaka will make less than $5m for the next two years if he stays in Japan, compared with ~$20 million for two years with the Sox.  IF he stays healthy and commands a big payday when he's 28, I still don't see it for more than $16 million/year, given that he still won't have pitched a major league inning.  So it'll be another 2.5 years before he can possibly make up the money, and that's assuming there are no injuries or consequences of all those innings he's pitched.  

by argo0 on Dec 13, 2006 9:41 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: Money, Money, Money, Money
Disregard some of what I've said.  I thought Boras was holding out for $15m/year, but apparently it's the Sox who are playing hardball.  http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2694660.  If the Sox are in fact offering $8 million/year for six years, and Boras is countering with $11 million/year for six years, I'm siding with Boras here -- if the deal doesn't go through with these figures, I'll blame the Sox.

by argo0 on Dec 13, 2006 10:01 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: Money, Money, Money, Money
I'd be skeptical about those numbers, the Sox are commited to not leaking info, meaning that leak came from Boras camp, and we know Boras is a lying scum-bag (during the Damon negotiations he told Sox that there was a third party offering $65 mill for 5 yrs. which didn't exist). The fact that Theo has publically said that he agrees that he's worth $100 mill (including the posting fee) means he's at least offering $50 mill deal, which at 5 yrs would be 10 mill a year. Theo also mentioned to have a second offer that suppasses anything per year offered to a Japanese player before, and Matsui got $24 mill/3 years, which is 8 mill a year, so it has to be more then that. Also, the fact that Boras believes he's worth $100 mil posting fee NOT included, he's looking for a lot more then $10 mil a year

by Realistic on Dec 13, 2006 10:25 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: Money, Money, Money, Money
6 years at 8m per = $48 million, which puts the total including posting fee at 99.1, right at that $100m figure.  I think Matsui got $21m/3 years, so $8m is also in excess of that.  I know Boras think Matsuzaka is worth a lot more, but from the Sox end, these figures actually are in line with what we've heard.

by argo0 on Dec 13, 2006 10:32 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: Money, Money, Money, Money
oh yeah, sorry, it was 21 mill, not 24, but that's still 7 mill a year, 1 mill a year more isn't considered "trump[ing] those figures by a considerable margin", also, I haven't heard anything about 6 years, I've heard that Boras wants less years (like 3-4) so he can hit the FA while he is still young and get a big payday and sox are pushing for 5 years

by Realistic on Dec 13, 2006 10:40 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: Money, Money, Money, Money
Read the link I gave -- it claims the parties agree on 6 years, the dispute is with the per-year figure.

by argo0 on Dec 13, 2006 10:57 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: Money, Money, Money, Money
Oh, I read that, but their source (and every other article I've seen on saying this) sited the Boston Herald as their resource, and I don't know if you're from Boston or not but the Herald is nearly a tabloid, they jump on and rumor or speculation and anytime their souce is unidentified it's safe to be skeptical (they don't always use the most reliable sources but feel it safe to print as long as there is someone to source no matter unreliable they may be). The fact that the Boston Globe actually has more access to Red Sox personel and didn't report anything like this I assume it's another one of Herald's shoddy sources

by Realistic on Dec 13, 2006 12:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Money, Money, Money, Money
We'll find out soon enough what the deal is, as according to Edes, it's essentially done --
http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/

by argo0 on Dec 13, 2006 12:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Money, Money, Money, Money
Don't get me wrong, not saying there's no way that that turns out to be the actual offering, jsut that I skeptical cuz only the Herald was reporting those number (or other's sourcing the Herald), could be that they did find someone reliable, and if they sign for that much that would be awesome, 8 mil for 6 years would be a steal if he lived up to his potential and assuming the $51 mill is recovered through increase in revenue coming from Japan

by Realistic on Dec 13, 2006 1:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Money, Money, Money, Money
I thought Theo "doesn't believe in 5-year deals".
A six-year deal?

About Boras - if Matzusaka doesn't sign this week, Boras can write off the Japanese market.  

But it looks like something's getting done.

A couple weeks ago I thought Boras would hold DK out forever, and that Manny would be trade for less than replacement value.  It's reassuring to see that I was wrong on both counts.

by RickD on Dec 13, 2006 3:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Money, Money, Money, Money
Yeah, this definitely is a special case because a longer contract is actually more benefical to the team because 1. they have exclusive negotiation rights so the per year will be lower then an equal-market player will ever be and 2. the longer he is with the team the longer the Sox have strong Japanese market potential and hence more time to recover their posting fee. Put it this way, this has to be one of the very few times that the team is pushing for more years and not the agent

by Realistic on Dec 13, 2006 3:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Money, Money, Money, Money
I tend to try to get a picture of what's going on based off of actual offical public announcements from either parties, instead of "unidentified sources/insiders"

by Realistic on Dec 13, 2006 10:32 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: Money, Money, Money, Money
Well I guess you are happy to just find out today that we signed Lugo
Get your Yankees Suck - Japanese shirts now: http://www.cafepress.com/yankeessuckjap

by jsnvaritek33 on Dec 13, 2006 7:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Money, Money, Money, Money
Sorry, wrong choice of words :) "credible public announcements" such as Theo saying "yes, we are close to a deal with Lugo" weeks ago, not necessarily the actual offical announcement

by Realistic on Dec 14, 2006 10:26 AM EST up reply actions  

Well...
These talks have a erry feel to them kind of like the Manny-ARod talks of a few years ago. I have a bad feeling that Luccino (sp) is playing hard ball and not budging. Boras is a pig, he is the reason Matsuzaka is not going to be signed.

by absolutelax395 on Dec 13, 2006 8:01 AM EST reply actions  

Re: Sox prepared to land Matsuzaka
FYI: A Japanese media source said this:
Asahi Television's evening news was just reporting on the big story, and had a man on the street in LA covering the wee morning beat on the Matsuzaka front. The LA reporter indicated that the Red Sox had in fact increased their offer, Boras seemed relieved, and the decision was now up to Matsuzaka about what he wants to do.

No idea if it's true at all (infact I actually doubt it), but it would great if it is. It would be great to know that Matsuzaka kicked Boras to the curb

by Realistic on Dec 13, 2006 12:30 PM EST reply actions  

See the thing is
Matsuzaka is NOT a free agent, and that's where the Sox will get Boras in the end.

The Red Sox bought his rights from the Seibu Lions. Matsuzaka should consider himself lucky that he even gets to negotiate a deal.

"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.

by SoxDevil on Dec 13, 2006 3:10 PM EST reply actions  

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