Jeter wins Aaron award

by RickD on Oct 26, 2006 6:45 AM EDT Comment 27 comments

I guess there's no doubt about the MVP then, is there?

Jeter is not the best hitter in the AL. This award is silly.

Jeter: 214 H 14 HR 97 RBI 118 R .343 BA .417 OB .483 SLG .900 OPS

Papi: 160 H 54 HR 137 RBI 115 R .287 BA .413 OB .636 SLG 1.049 OPS

I thought there might be competition from Dye, Hafner, Thome, or Mauer. Jeter didn't lead the league in any category and lagged significantly behind in the power categories. He's not even the best hitter on the Yankees!

sigh

Fan voting - a brilliant idea!

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Re: Jeter wins Aaron award

This is the problem with democracy. Everyone gets a vote...

Vote for Pedroia

by britsoxfan on Oct 26, 2006 7:05 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I see

Dost thou want to be king?

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Oct 26, 2006 7:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'd give it a go...

but seriously, this ties in with my frustration about other baseball awards, such as places on the All-Star Teams. Gold Gloves. The Hall of Fame. Etc.

Who can make the "right" decision?

Not baseball writers, that's for sure. Just look at the sometimes strange decisions made on who does and who doesn't make the HOF.

Not managers and coaches. There have been some bizarre GG winners down the years (Palmeiro, for one).

And there are more fans for teams such as the Yankees and, yes, the Red Sox, so these two teams will always be over-represented in the All-Star lineup.

NB I'm not making this point because Jeter won the Aaron award. It's partly defensible because he has had a very good season, albeit not the one of a prototypical slugger, which is what I associated with the Aaron award.

Vote for Pedroia

by britsoxfan on Oct 26, 2006 7:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: I'd give it a go...

I agree with you. That's why I could care less about awards and all star selections. They're meaningless.

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Oct 26, 2006 7:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Jeter wins Aaron award

The purpose of the Aaron award was the reward the best hitter, and thus separate that criterion from "MVP". Idea being that the Aaron award would be for hitters what the Cy Young award was for pitchers. It has worked well up through this season. But putting the voting to the public was a big mistake. It's especially bad when online voting is involved, since online voting is very subject to local GOTV campaigns.

Just leave it to the writers, like the MVP. At least then there would be consistency. Frankly I think Jeter was a bit embarrassed to win this award.

by RickD on Oct 26, 2006 9:58 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Jeter wins Aaron award

He even said in the press conference "I sort of feel out of place,With Hank Aaron, the first thing that comes to mind is home runs. Ryan Howard the same thing...I'm surprised I'm here right now."

by Realistic on Oct 26, 2006 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Jeter wins Aaron award

No offense to Big Papi, but this is one of many reasons why it was sad that Hafner's season ended when it did. He was clearly the best hitter in the AL this year, IMHO, and there's where a big argument could've been made against Jeter. Not that Papi hasn't put up the numbers or the presence, but until Hafner went down, Papi was kind of a baby step behind him all year.

by Allen Chace on Oct 26, 2006 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hafner is the poster boy

for why awards shouldn't be voted for by the fans.

Vote for Pedroia

by britsoxfan on Oct 26, 2006 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Jeter wins Aaron award

Absolutely.

Moronic fans. It's like Hafner's stats don't count because his team's record sucked.

by future on Oct 26, 2006 5:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

FJM weighs in ...

If Only There Were a Way to Tell Who Had the Best Offensive Year Using Statistics. But There Clearly Is Not.
So, let's just go ahead and give the Henry Aaron Award for the American League to Derek Jeter. Cool?

No? It isn't cool? Why not?

Exhibits 1-5 of what is like probably 1000 exhibits:

Runs Created, AL, 2006:

Ortiz 141.8
Sizemore 134.1

3. Jeter 128.2

Hafner 124.4
Thome 122.8

Not bad. So far, Jeter's a decent choice.

EqA, AL, 2006

Hafner .355
Ramirez (Bos.) .342
Ortiz .334
Thome .328
Giambi .326
Mauer .321
Dye .320

8. Jeter .316

Okay...not the best choice anymore. Hafner seems like the best choice so far, maybe. Or Ortiz. But let's keep going. Because I love Derek Jeter, and I really want to believe that he was the best offensive player in the league this year.

IsoP, AL, 2006

Hafner .350
Ortiz .349
Thome .310
Dye .306
Giambi .305

Then there's a really long run of dudes who stink, like Kevin Millar and stuff, and then...

Pierzynski .141
Iguchi .141

52. Jeter .140

Huh. Now I'm definitely iffy on Derek Jeter being the best offensive player in the AL this year. Let's keep going.

SecA, AL, 2006

(This takes into account Jeter's SB, remember)

Hafner .570
Ortiz .565
Giambi .556
Thome, .529
Ramirez (Bos.) .519

(Then there's a long list of dudes, including Johnny Damon and Jorge Posada and Alex Rodriguez and, yes, Kevin Millar again, and then we get...)
28. Millar .302
29. Jeter .297

Ugh. This is looking more and more like Derek Jeter didn't deserve this award. Sorry I put in the thing about how Millar was in the long list of dudes who came before Jeter and then also wrote in Millar's place on the list right above Jeter, but I really wanted to hammer home the insane fact that Kevin Millar had a higher SecA than Derek Jeter in 2006.

Well, at least Jeter led the league in OPS. Check that -- he was 15th. Hafner was first.

No matter. I'm sure he was at the very least the best offensive player on his own team. Oops -- hang on. Giambi was way better in every single stat except BA and SB. And ARod was 13th in OPS. (Surprising -- I thought that guy sucked, based on what people who are professional sportswriters have told me.)

Well, okay, fine, whatever -- Jeter was definitely the very very best offensive SS in the AL. Except arguably Carlos Guillen, who had a higher OPS, more HR, more 2B, and more walks, in 80 fewer AB.

But look, everyone -- Jeter was second in VORP in the AL. So he's not a bad choice.

Of course, Hafner was first in VORP in the AL.

Travis Hafner is a better hitter than Derek Jeter. So are lots of other people. Jeter might deserve the MVP, because he put up his very very good stats from the SS position, which makes those stats very very valuable. But the Hank Aaron Award is not the MVP.

So there you have it, folks. Derek Jeter. Winner of the Hank Aaron Award for being the first-or-second-best-hitting SS in the AL, and probably like the third- or fourth-best hitter on his own team.

That's what we give the award out for, correct?

I've got nothing more to add ...

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Oct 26, 2006 8:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: FJM weighs in ...

Now I'm pretty sure I'm the biggest Derek Jeter fan on this site, but I almost died laughing when I saw the picture of Jeter, Aaron, and Howard. Aaron and Howard have huge smiles, and Jeter has this confused "what the f--- am I doing here?" look on his face. And yeah, I voted for Hafner. The Aaron award is practically built for a DH.

"If you're in love with the game, you can't turn it on and off like a light. It's something that runs so deep it takes you over." ~Billy Martin.

by jscape2000 on Oct 26, 2006 8:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: FJM weighs in ...

I dislike Derek Jeter ALMOST purely because of the uniform, and I'm hoping you didn't mean what you just said. It would end up coming out as "biggest Derek Jeter fan" = "most misguided fan". Anyone who wants to argue about him being MVP, well. That includes the intangible factor. Certainly an argument for him there. Best hitter, AL-LEAST? Not even close. Not even close. Enjoy. Snipe back, because it's what you're good at. Come close to a real argument, because I know you won't.

by Allen Chace on Oct 27, 2006 1:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: FJM weighs in ...

"I voted for him"

It doesn't make you his biggest fan, it makes you an idiot.

by future on Oct 27, 2006 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Did you really need the quote

Aren't the posts enough?

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Oct 27, 2006 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Jeter wins Aaron award

I don't follow - if I'm disputing the idea that the award should follow fan voting, then you're saying that I'm not allowed to complain unless I voted?

That doesn't make sense at all. Go back to the Yankee blog, troll.

by RickD on Oct 27, 2006 6:48 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Jeter wins Aaron award

He's not saying Papi should have one, he's saying that letting fans do the voting in general is a bad practice because people like you don't vote for the best hitter, but vote for the player that they have some man-crush on and rob deserving players of the award like Hafner. Voting for someone because you're a fan of theirs and not becuase they deserve it isn't "loyality", it's belittling what the award represents and reducing it's creditability and significance. This isn't "whose your favorite player" award, so get over yourself and your team and vote for someone actually deserving. This isn't suppose to be a popularity contest. Not to mention he never said he didn't vote, and even if he didn't, how does not voting negate someones right to complain about the process? It's not like he ever said he didn't vote in some sort of boycott of the process, so even though your comment about "refusing to vote doesn't have impact" may be true it's completely irrelevant.

The problem is that of the candidates sox and yankees have the biggest fan base so naturally will get the most votes, except sox fans aren't so conceitedly in love with themselves and are actually able to vote for someone them feel is more deserving then someone on their team like Hafner.

by Realistic on Oct 27, 2006 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Jeter wins Aaron award

I was refering to the Yankee fans that voted for Jeter, because he clearly wasn't even top 5 based on his numbers, it's not a generalization of all yankee fans, but the fact he won shows there are many yankee fans that fit this description. And no, voting for Papi wouldn't be the same becuase his batting numbers actually DO put him in competition for the award, so it's completely believable for one to conclude that he deserves the award and vote for him, to conclude that Jeter honestly deserves the award based on his numbers is either ignorant or a complete lie. It's one things to slightly favor a player in voting that maybe deserves it, maybe not, it's another thing to favor a player that clearly doesn't deserve it.

by Realistic on Oct 27, 2006 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Jeter wins Aaron award

"conceit: A favorable and especially unduly high opinion of one's worth, having an excessively favorable opinion towards one"

Umm, that's exactly what voting for Jeter is, so how is that an idoitic generalization if I'm just refering to the people who voter for Jeter?

by Realistic on Oct 27, 2006 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Jeter wins Aaron award

honestly, I don't see how you think anyone takes you serious on this site when you go from being a complete jerk-off, to pretending to be the reasonable yankee fan that's just here for some constructive debate, to seemingly taking offense to any small anti-yankee remark and within the same reply use insulting words like "sux" "loston" "lil pipi", how hypocritical can you be?

by Realistic on Oct 27, 2006 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Jeter wins Aaron award

Seriously, admin, can you ban this git? I voted for Hafner.

Hafner was the best hitter in all of baseball this season. Jeter was not.

2006...you are incapable of making a rational argument.

Let's put it this way. Bush was re-elected in 2004. Everyone who did not vote for him cannot think he is a terrible choice for president even though they didn't vote? Please. Just because you don't vote doesn't mean you don't think he's a terrible President.

Jeter is a terrible choice for the Aaron award. MVP, I have no beef with that.

:rolls eyes:

by future on Oct 27, 2006 3:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Jeter wins Aaron award

Seconded. Please ban.

Vote for Pedroia

by britsoxfan on Oct 27, 2006 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Jeter wins Aaron award

Third

by Realistic on Oct 27, 2006 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Jeter wins Aaron award

fourth, fifth, sixth...

by forage on Oct 27, 2006 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Jeter wins Aaron award

As a Yankee fan who has enjoyed visiting this site in the last year, bro you're getting on my nerves.
You are everything that is wrong with sports.

"If you're in love with the game, you can't turn it on and off like a light. It's something that runs so deep it takes you over." ~Billy Martin.

by jscape2000 on Oct 28, 2006 3:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Jeter wins Aaron award

Jscape, on behalf of the Red Sox fans here, thank you for being a Yankee fan who can carry out a cogent, well-reasoned discussion about baseball.

Vote for Pedroia

by britsoxfan on Oct 28, 2006 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Jeter wins Aaron award

How much of our discussion on this site as a whole, that doesn't involve you, is pure trash-talking? Seriously. I mean. I'm sure there's no way to answer that question honestly that'll make you look better. And I'm disappointed for you about that. A well-reasoned discussion or two? Yeah. One or two.

A little trash talk? A little? Honestly. If you disagree, fine. You're a Yankees fan, we're Red Sox fans (on a Red Sox site, on a Red Sox site, on a Red Sox site) it's only natural you'd disagree with us from time to time, and possibly most of the time. But using slurs referring to people as homosexuals is not the way to get people to respect your opinion.

Honestly, and you'll turn this around on me I'm sure, I'm not sure there is hope for you as far as that goes, until you mature and learn some life lessons. Maybe you will. Maybe you won't.

Intelligent, well-reasoned, respectful discussion. Debate is fine. But debate usually involves the sides having well-reasoned, respectful, and intelligent thoughts to put out there. I'm not trying to say you're not intelligent, but you're not making that argument easy for yourself.

I'll be the first to admit, I've snapped back at you a couple times. Drawn into the game. It's ludicrous, and I am sorry for it. It was wrong, even if based on your behavior, it may not have been incorrect. But it's petty. It implies ignorance. I don't like being thought of that way, and I'd hope you wouldn't either. If you do like being thought of that way, at least respect those of us here that do want to have reasonable discourse on this website. Is that so hard? Is it? Is it for some reason impossible? I don't see why not.

by Allen Chace on Oct 29, 2006 10:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs